Product Design Defined with Sophie & Harrison Mills

diane: Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Creatives Ignite. And I, it’s a Saturday special Saturday episode, and I am excited because I have a father daughter duo. And I had met Harrison at another conference, um, year before something. And then I got to meet, and I got to meet his wife then, um, Stephanie, right?

Is that right? Yeah. And then, um, and then at the Creative South 2023, I got to, hey, Maura, I got to meet, um, she made my, uh, Sophie made my Create Creative South 2023 so much better. And she is such a joy. And since we’re doing something about products, which again, product design means something different to a lot of people.

And I’m trying to like bust all the things. Cause it’s a lot of different things. So we’re talking to Sophie and Harrison Mills all about, um, a. Uh, venture that they have, and they’ve created a company, and so we’re going to talk about their product. So I’m so excited to have you both.

harrison: Good to be here.

Thanks for having us.

diane: Thank you. All right. So Sophie, I want to ask you, and I just asked you this a second ago, but, um, how old were you when you started, uh, drawing this frog?

sophie: Well, let’s see. I was probably 10 when I started drawing him, um, and he kind of came about, I got some new pens for my birthday, and I was, we were all kind of drawing on this piece of paper, and then I drew him, when I was, And so

diane: then, this was just, um, kind of a random, it wasn’t like, Let’s make a company, make some drawings, right?

Yeah, that was random. Okay, so then from there, and either one of you can ask, answer this, but from there, so two years ago, or almost two years ago, because your birthday is this month, um, almost two years ago, how long from that first drawing, which I know we’re going to see in a minute, to, um, to, to starting kind of something and creating The first kind of product, maybe if it was just, maybe it was just a sticker, but how long?

harrison: It’s probably about a couple of months or so.

diane: Oh, so not that long. So how long did, so she drew it. How long did you decide, Hey, I’m going to illustrate, I’m going to put this in illustrator and vectorize it. Like how long was that

harrison: then? Um, it was, uh, I don’t think it was, I mean, I think it was around About a month and a half later or something because

diane: she kept drawing the same little frog or

harrison: yeah, that was kind of part of it.

Um, she kept drawing and we, because, because I noticed it and I said, that’s a pretty funny frog. That’s a, that’s a, you know, good looking little frog that you have there. And, um. I said, he looks kind of grumpy. And so that’s kind of how we started moving into that. Um, naming, uh, of grumpy frog or GC grumpy frog, um, which.

diane: Right. So, so it’s the, it’s the deeper name, which I was like, I don’t know, I need to ask what this GC is. I want to make sure it was safe for my audience, you know, Sophie, tell us what GC stands for.

sophie: It stands for Gordon Cornelius Grumpy

diane: Frog. Do you know anybody named Gordon or anybody named Cornelius?

Yeah,

harrison: so I did have a teacher in high school. His name was Gordon, but nobody that I’m, you know,

diane: nobody that’s related to y’all or anything. It wasn’t after a old grandparent or something. So that’s good. All right. So I want you. So Harrison, you are a designer. Um, that’s what you do for a living. So it’s not just some random thing that you’re like, my kid drew a really cool frog.

And then I’m going to figure out illustrator. So you already had a lot of these skills, but I think that this is, to me, it’s inspiring for other parents who have kids who are drawing, um, maybe taking it to, um, a net. Next level. So can you give us a little bit of background about how, so making stickers and then starting a business are kind of not, that’s not like first we made sticker and then the next step, of course, business, like there’s something else that kind of comes in.

So what was it? And was it Sophie that was like, let’s do this. Or was this kind of a, Hey, Sophie, do you want to do this? Or how did that, how did starting the business kind of come up?

harrison: Um, to begin with, uh, do you want to jump in on any of that?

sophie: Start giving the stickers to my ballet class out to some of the, just for fun.

Right. Yep. And they’re like, Oh my goodness, this is so

diane: cool. So they saw, you saw some response that maybe you weren’t expecting. Yeah. How did that make you feel when other people had your frog on their water bottles or they got excited about it? It made me feel happy. You know what, Sophie, no matter how many times I made something or how old I am, it still makes me happy to, to see somebody using a design that I’ve created for them.

It’s just, so it’s really nice that you get to share some of your joy, right? With these people, but then it’s really it, there’s some pride that goes with it, which is in. In this case, I think is a great thing, um, and it’s just really cool to see your frog on somebody else’s stuff, right? Even your hat. Okay, so I’m repping my, uh, grumpy frog today.

So, um, So how long then from, how many sets of stickers, Sophie, did you give out before your dad was like, Hey, I think we want to start a business. Um,

sophie: well, no, I gave out some grumpy frogs and I gave out some seashells and then that kind of started in, right?

harrison: Yeah. So, um, and I’ve got a little. Some different little, uh, slides.

Yeah, you want to take us

diane: through there? So then we can, we don’t know who Cecil is. So you’re just good with, um, making names up for these characters. Is that right Sophie? Yeah. Okay,

harrison: good.

sophie: Welcome

harrison: to Moss Bottom Hollow. This is, basically, later on, we discovered that this is, uh,

sophie: Where they live.

harrison: Yep. Decided that this is, this is the town that Grumpy Frog and all of his friends and relatives live in.

diane: And that’s just a made up town?

harrison: That’s a made up town. So

diane: if you made it up?

harrison: It was both. Just kind of collaboration. Because brainstorming is one of the best things to do to generate good ideas. Back and forth. So this is the original. This is the OG. Grumpy Frog. This is the first drawing that she has done.

That kind of started it all and let Sophie walk you through this little comic.

diane: How big is this, Sophie?

sophie: Um, wait, how big is what?

diane: The, the drawing. Was it on like a regular eight and a half by eleven piece of paper? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

sophie: Um, so, one night, like I said, we were just drawing with some pens. That I had gotten for my birthday, and I started drawing this little frog, the very first one where he’s slapping on the fly without a hat.

And then I kind of started, like, drawing him, like, He’s going to sleep, and then, like, falls off his lily pad. I see that one. That one is really

diane: good.

harrison: And so this is where it all started. And, um, then later on, uh, that year We ended up going to, uh, there’s an event that was going on, uh, I think it was in October, um, called glizzy fest is a hot dog festival and, uh, there’s somebody over there that Sophie’s with that.

You might recognize Mike Jones. He was, uh, um. Selected to do 1 of the, um, panels for, uh, uh, ink wars that they had and Sophie, he and I, Sophie, Mike, and I were hanging out and drawing. He was getting prepped. And so Sophie Drew was drawing a grumpy frog and Mike said, Hey, I think I’m going to put him within my drawing.

So, as you see there, there’s Mike’s stylized version of Gordon Cornelius.

diane: Gordon Cornelius looks very scared going down that hot dog slide.

harrison: And, and so between this time is when. You know, we started, uh, making having the stickers made and, um, the first run and, uh, and so

diane: these are just low quantity. You weren’t really thinking anything of

harrison: it.

Quantity. Yep. Um, just somebody’s

diane: running a sale. Yeah. Right?

harrison: So, yeah, there’s a company that we get a lot of our stuff from called a sticker mule. They were running like a, you know, 50. Yeah. Uh, run a 53 inch by three inch stickers for like, uh, 19. So that’s,

diane: they do that a lot, right? The different kinds of stickers, um, holographic or glitter or to, and companies do this to give you, give promotions to let people try it for a low cost.

So 20 bucks for 50 stickers is pretty great.

harrison: It is, and so that’s when, uh, we started kind of, I guess, for the best unknowing to us. It’s kind of a test run, so to speak, as far as the product goes, uh. There was well received by Sophie’s, uh, friends. Um, so he started to expand from Grumpy Frog to his friend Cecil Salamander, which Sophie can tell you a little bit about Cecil.

sophie: So Cecil, he’s Grumpy Frog’s friend, and he’s very talkative, but you know Grumpy Frog, he’s a sleep late, slight, pretty grumpy. I don’t, I don’t want to talk too much early in the morning, whereas Cecil was an early riser and he’s very talkative. I even did a comic where it’s like Cecil’s coming like early in the morning and he wakes up Grumpy Frog and he’s like, let’s go get breakfast and Grumpy Frog like slaps him with his tongue, like go away.

And so Cecil kind of comes up a lot of times when Grumpy Frog is not in the mood for him. He’s very, very talkative.

diane: I love it. So then who’s the other friend here?

sophie: So right here we have Bubba Q. He’s Grumpy Frog’s cheerful brother and he loves Barbecue, as you can see from the little barbecue sandwich in his hand.

And Mr. Mike actually kind of helped us come up with that one. He said, let’s do a frog with barbecue. I was like, sure, we can do that.

diane: I like that he’s happy.

sophie: Yeah.

harrison: Yeah, and then later on with some of these others, uh, so Bubba Q, he runs a barbecue shack. So we decided what would that look like as far as the logo is concerned.

So we’re starting to get into world building here with the story of the characters and then Moss Bottom Hollow is where they um, where they live. And what does a Moss Bottom Hollow do? You know, city logo kind of look like, and then also just, um, the lily pad within itself is, is a, another little icon that is, um, very, uh, um, good focal point, just kind of unique.

It’s kind of part of the, the whole area because. He’s on a, uh, Grumpy Frog’s on a lily pad and got that little flower there, too. I

diane: love that you’re able to create these stories, like, um, going with your imagination, Sophie. Your dad’s able to create some of these. The brands are the world that kind of goes with it.

What a neat collaboration, even if nobody else was around. That’s just a really neat father daughter kind of fun thing to do. So after you like how, how long after the first, um, first sketch, uh, to, to this time, like, did this take a year or over a year to create these little

harrison: These, uh, I think the first, um, to these, these characters right here, I think that we were in about, uh, six months, I guess, in from initial drawing.

Because one of the things too, was not only did we get the response from Sophie’s friends, but also, um. Mike Jones was also a big proponent in encouraging, uh, Sophie, like, Hey, these are cool. Um, you know, and why don’t you take a look at some more, you know, stickers. So he kind of, uh, helped to encourage us a little bit with, with that.

And that’s kind of how we just, we wanted to have fun. With it anyways, in general, and so that’s how the world started to begin to grow and, um, so originally to begin with, we had, uh, to start off with, we had these 3 stickers, the grumpy frog, Cecil, salamander, then barbecue, and then we had 2 unique, um, stickers.

Which were metallic color stickers of one of Grumpy Frog and one of Cecil Salamander. Because, you know, who doesn’t like shiny stickers, right?

diane: Right. And those, did you do just the 50 again, just the testing small run kind of thing? Or were you like, at this point, you’re like, maybe this is a business.

Because at this point, even six months in, you’re just making things. This is something that you and her are doing together. It doesn’t, it’s not a business. necessarily yet you get got encouragement. There’s some other stickers, but you can still kind of do the 20, um, investment. So and then just kind of give them away.

So when, when did it become a business? Like, when did you decide, Hey, we’re gonna sell these?

harrison: We were encouraged again by Mike, because we have connections with him. He said, Hey, if you want to, um, come set up a booth at Creative South. And so when he suggested that, we’re like, okay. Why not? Let’s I’m already had a pass to go to Creative South.

I was going anyways. Um, so that well took care of, uh, vendor fees. And so we set up a table.

diane: So what did Sophie, what did you think when, did you even know really what this was going to be where you were going to? Have your stuff for sale. What was that like for you?

sophie: Well, I was kind of I was a little bit nervous at first, but I was also really excited.

Um, I knew that daddy had gone crazy stuff, but I didn’t really know much about it. Never actually been to it before,

diane: but so you were nervous, but it was mainly because you didn’t know what it was going to be like. Yeah. So then when you’re like, Oh, wow, it’s a table. And did you have to work to create some new things for her?

Yeah. The, your shop, we

harrison: pretty much kept the kept things simple to begin with. So it was, um, see if I had the first, uh, yeah, so this was bending. So to begin with, we kind of try to keep sort of a theme. So this was just. a test run, like what would our table kind of look like? Um, we went to, I love those moss things.

diane: Like, I don’t know, they look like Hobby Lobby, like you went and had some crafty time, but it looks so much fun. Yeah,

harrison: I mean, that’s that you’re right. We went to Michael’s. They had a, uh, big, um, there’s a sale on some of the moss pieces and the, the boxes, the little crates. Uh, so we found just the thing that just thinking about the, um.

Uh, the decor on the actual table, what it would look like now, since I work at, uh, um, out of home advertising company, you know, I got a little bit of perks and that’s how I was able to get the, uh, table runner down there in the middle with GC grumpy frog on there. Uh, we were able to get that printed out.

So, and that’s one of the other things starting off, use the things that you, you have and the connections that you have. Uh, to help, you know, cut down costs

diane: and you weren’t really inventing the wheel at this point, you were just taking grumpy frog and putting him on a very basic kind of background, but you were setting the scene, which, again, it doesn’t have to be so elaborate at some points, right, right, just to get started.

harrison: And since these are just small, um. Accoutrements to, uh, set up the booth, the kind of setting up the booth was something that sort of would help to set the, the mood of, you know, the whole. User experience of coming up to the booth and seeing these little characters and we had a few hats made that were embroidered hats and sales scape out of here.

Stop sharing my screen. We had, um, the original. Grumpy frog hat that was embroidered on and we had a one with a lily pad embroidered on as well. And then we also had, um, these, uh, dad hats that were donated to us because we had somebody who wanted to see Sophie succeed.

Oh, nice.

harrison: Yeah. And so those are some of our beginning, like the first run of stuff at the Creative South 2023.

diane: So 2024, it got a little, you, you added more things and you, you, you were, this is not your first podcast. You have been on others. So I didn’t catch you at the beginning, but I am a huge fan. So, but so Sophie started on paper. And I always think it’s fun to kind of ask people like what they prefer if they’re more analog, which means like drawing with pencil and pen and markers on paper, or you design things on the, um, on procreator, the iPad.

And I know your dad has the cleanup. He’s got the production. He, you’re like, I’m done with another here, draw this in the computer. But right now you are not using Adobe Illustrator. Your dad hasn’t taken you to that level of, uh, learning the programs, right? But you have used the iPad. Mm hmm. Okay, so what, what is your thought, um, on how that works now of drawing on the iPad versus on paper?

And do you have a preference, Sophie?

sophie: I definitely like drawing on paper a lot better than on the iPad. Because you

diane: have cool pencils and pens and markers? Yep.

Alright,

diane: so then for you, Harrison, was that like, I just took a picture with my phone and I, or I scanned it in? Like, what was your process, um, to get him on your computer?

Like, was it? It

harrison: was basically, you know, taking a picture. Um, dropping it into Illustrator, yeah, and just redraw or just have reference to take a look at and go from there.

diane: Okay, so then when she’s creating these other characters, when do you decide I’m going to vectorize this 1? Like, when did Cecil get?

When did he, was that after prodding? Like Sophie, he’s like, can you make Cecil? Can you make Cecil? Can you make Cecil? Or is it, um, like let’s do Cecil today or something.

harrison: Yeah. I mean, that was basically, let’s just, let’s do it. I mean, it was, it’s been kind of most of the, uh, most of this has been, we’re, we’re on an adventure.

We’re having fun with this. Um, Let’s see where this goes. Why not this or why not that or what if that’s another big, you know, what, what if he has a friend or what does his friends look like? Let’s we like. So, so, if he likes frogs or frogs and toads or 1 of her favorite animals, and we like salamanders to, um, those have been fun to, to see around, you know, going out and exploring.

And so, you know, cause they’re both amphibians. It just kind of made sense of Grumpy Frog having a friend that’s a amphibian, another amphibian, which is, you know, Salamander.

diane: Okay, so, Sophie, from, um, at this point, you do Creative South, you sit there the first day, you have some things to sell, I wasn’t there at this point, but you made my, made my, I only could go for one day.

Cause that’s when my mom’s funeral was. And so really it was just such a blessing to eat dinner with you. Um, because you just made my, made my day. It was awesome. So I didn’t really get to see what your booth was like until the next year. But so what was that first experience like for you, Sophie, as, because if you were, you weren’t alone, like your dad was doing other things, but your mom was there with you.

I actually do think I went by that booth. I remember where y’all’s booth was. So I did, I went by it before, but it just blanked out of my mind. Okay, so Sophie, what were you, how did you feel? Because you had to interact with a lot of people.

sophie: Well, I was a little nervous at first because I used to be really shy, but that kind of, because everyone was so kind and encouraging, that really broke the ice and I was able to just start to fluently be able to talk to people.

diane: That’s awesome. So this before, if you were describing yourself as a 10 year old going to Creative South, you were going with your mom and I mean, your dad was there too, but he was doing other things. Your mom was right there with you most of the time. So you’re there, somebody comes up to your table and starts talking to you.

How do you get over that first like, Oh my goodness, I have to talk about this. Like, was it just repetition or is there anything you would tell somebody else who was a 10 year old that was thinking about doing this just to give them encouragement?

sophie: Well, um, just, I guess, kind of think about what, like, more of your characters and, like, just kind of dive in.

The first one I just was like, okay, and I just dived in and started talking about them and as I did, I felt, I started feeling better. Oh,

diane: that’s good. That’s a good tip. I think.

harrison: Okay. It was, it was, uh, sharing, sharing the, the, the story and sharing the world, like here, introducing the characters. Somebody would come up, she would say, Hey, this is, uh, this is my creation.

This is grumpy frog. And this is his best friend, Cecil Salamander. And, and so that way, the individual who comes up, um, They’re not just looking at products, but now they’re seeing a world, they’re seeing the characters, they’re seeing a story unfold in front of them, which now, when that was when Sophie would start to talk about that, the, the person would then at least get a little bit more interested in like, oh, there, there’s something more behind just a little character that’s been made

diane: now.

Do you like to hold frogs? Yeah, so you live near the water. You live near the Chattahoochee River, but the Chattahoochee River is pretty, um, powerful at that place in the river. It’s not like this little tiny stream, but there probably are lots of salamanders and, and lizards and frogs, um, all around. So you have no problems touching those things.

For, for years before you were okay with this, right? Or yeah,

sophie: I’ve been fine for like a long time. Like people say toes give you warts. I was like, I’ve been picking them up for years. I don’t have warts. That’s like,

diane: I think that’s a wise sale. Right? Yeah,

sophie: yeah,

diane: go ahead.

sophie: We had a toad called nubs that we found and he didn’t have any back feet.

He just had back legs. And so I kind of got a little practice and we also have 2 toads now because unfortunately nubs passed away. Herbert, um, Cee, Dumpling, and Gustav, Percival, Plumpkin. Are

diane: you

sophie: sure they’re boys? Did you take them to the vet? No, the way you can tell is girl toads don’t squeak and boy toads do.

harrison: You hold them, kind of, uh, gently squeeze them on their sides. They’ll give this little chirp chirp kind of I don’t squeak! Yep.

diane: Stop squeezing me! Okay. I didn’t know that. That is interesting. Okay. So yeah, that’s really cool though. Nubs. I had a, I had a cat without a tail and I called her nothing. So, but she lived for, I don’t know, 14 years.

She was my favorite. Anyway, but they don’t all live forever anyway, but it’s just how it goes, but I sure love they’re in our lives, you know Okay. So what other types of events so you did creative south was that your first Venue to go to yes. Okay. So then after that, did you sell out? No, we didn’t sell out

But we did well though.

Yeah

diane: Did you from that? Did you have an idea of what products worked? Well, or better or yes. Okay. So what worked well for that kind of creative audience?

sophie: Probably a lot of people liked the grumpy frog and especially the shiny ones. Did you have magnets at that point? That’s what this

diane: one is. Yeah.

harrison: Yeah, I think we did have, uh, the grumpy frog magnets.

Yeah,

diane: I can’t remember when I get things. I just like to get them. So

sophie: yeah, and the Cecil salamanders as well. A lot of that is sold. Well,

diane: so, so you, you come home, you kind of analyze your inventory and you decide what kind of decisions do you make after this first event?

harrison: So we take a look at what. What has sold well, so we’ve kind of marked that down.

And if we had extra inventory, we don’t need to purchase any further. I think we came out in the black or at least came out even from what we had. Did you

diane: have a storefront, like a re uh, online store at this point? Okay, so this is just really you’re just testing to see if this, you know, Sophie’s friends like it, you’re in Columbus, so it’s not like you really had to go very far, but it was just kind of like, okay, we’re not going to repurchase this, um.

Kind of things, but you’ve expanded since then, right?

harrison: And so some of the other things, um, because we’re there with a bunch of other vendors and since, uh, creative south is basically vending for designers, um, other creatives, you know, you’ve got other vendors there to go through and take a look at. Um, so part of it is also, uh, asking some of the other vendors, like, hey, what, what does well with, with your shop?

Um, uh, we were thinking about doing this. So talking shop with other people who are there is, is another, um, uh, key thing that we did. Um, and of course we’ve got. Sophie, who doesn’t love Sophie. So they’re ready to help out however, you know, possible. And that’s one of the great things that I will say, going to an event like Creative South is that, you know, big support that’s there.

People, people do want. To see you succeed and they definitely, um, want to see somebody like, you know, Sophie succeed. And so that’s how we were able to get some of the things like, well, maybe we should try some of this or maybe try that. Um, and we just started slowly again, uh, making decisions on like, for instance, the hats, uh, the first year.

Our overhead for the hats were, um, were more, I think we only made, uh, uh, only a small percentage off the hats because the overhead was, was so much because it was a short run. I got them from a company, uh, local company and, um, they’re

diane: just more expensive, right? Unless

harrison: you

diane: buy more or you

harrison: right. And so I went in and I researched because I was sitting here thinking.

Okay, for one of these hats, it’s, it’s there. I’m being charged about, um, I think at the time, 18, 19. And so that’s not much of a margin. And that’s one of the things you got to figure out, like how much are you, are you making? And so, um, some of the exact same hats that, that the company that I had purchased the hats from and got the embroidery done, I was able to find the hats for five.

4 a piece. Just doing some extra research, right? Doing some extra research. There are wholesalers out there. There are other just blank. Um, we can just buy blank inventory and you can get the same hats or, you know, inventory for, for much less. Uh, then what somebody will charge you because they’ve got to buy wholesale themselves, and then they have a markup and then the markup for their services, which, you know, understand, and if they’re not doing huge volume, then right.

diane: So then you started piecing things out and then doing some of that. Um, sewing yourself,

harrison: right? Like, like the hat that you’re wearing there, those, those, uh, hand stitched or they’re not hand stitched, but machine stitched by hand. You know, I was the one that did those, um, did those, those hats and some of the other hats from this past, uh, creative South.

diane: That’s cool. So, and it’s a, um, I love, I mean, my hair doesn’t look so great, but yeah, it’s a really great patch. I love the, um, dad hat. I mean, I have to really, my end is really far in, you know, like, cause my head’s small, but, um, but I think that it, so when you’re, Figuring out, does this hat work or does this hat, did you, one thing I, I wonder is, did you take some time and invest and just buy one hat to see what it was going to be like from that vendor?

Or did you just take a risk and get a small number?

harrison: So same kind of thing with being there at the, um. At the vendors, uh, vendor hall and vending. So, reach over here. Um, So this hat right here, it’s a BBQ, BBQ Shack hat. Uh, it’s a, it’s a trucker style hat, but the mesh in the back is a very, It’s a soft mesh.

Um, this is almost fabric like, and as opposed to the first run hat, this is the plastic, very rigid,

diane: Yeah, it kind of sits up off my head, kind of.

harrison: And so, um, some of these are like personal preferences. We also noticed that some of the dad hats that we had, uh, those sold out fairly quick. And yeah, the, yeah, we sold out all of those and then the one, the hat you’re wearing this past time, we sold out all of those as well.

So that’s I got mine early. That’s it. You know, somebody,

diane: but that’s also important. So you, so you, when you were going around and asking, you were like, what vendors are you using? Where are you buying? something and you would ask them maybe how is this work? How is this a good seller for you? And then you would say if they had kind of a trucker hat, which maybe you liked but you didn’t like that real.

firm lift off hat that my grandpa wore. Um, uh, then you’d say, well, where did you get this hat? Is that what you’re kind of saying? Like going to some of these festivals first and seeing who is around? Cause sometimes it’s like, I don’t think this’ll be a good venue if you just. Go instead of paying the table fee.

And if it’s in another city, you have to drive there and pay for a hotel and stuff like that. It may be worth going as a, just, um, attendee first and see if it’s going to be worth it for the investment. Right.

harrison: Yeah, definitely.

diane: And then you ask, you just ask questions. You were willing to not have to just fall on your face.

You said, Hey, where did you get this? What vendor? And most people, I think Creative South is. really great because people are really friendly and nice. But so at that, then you didn’t have to just get one to see what the vendor was like. You already knew because you had seen some other products from that vendor.

Is that what you’re saying?

harrison: Yeah. I mean, that’s kind of some of it. Yeah. So like the

diane: barbecue hat, how many did you get? Because color wise might not be the same as somebody else’s. Right.

harrison: So, um, this one’s a brown one. And so I got, uh, I think a run of maybe, just a small run of like maybe 10 or so. And then also have a burgundy.

Oh, nice. You know, so that way I’ve got a couple different colorways. They both fit. Um, and that’s that’s 1 of the other fun parts about this is the thinking of, okay, we got some different colorways and different hats that we can do like the hat that you’re wearing. I’ve got another 1 of these, but the coloration is teal.

Kind of like the same moss bottom hollow teal, but I’ve got a moss bottom hollow on there, but it’s a Tucker hat like this. Um, and so just kind of making some of those decisions. What will some of these look like? Um, with, uh, with, with, you know, with the patches.

diane: Now you, uh, you did something this past year that I don’t know if you did the first year and this was work for Sophie, but you were able to get custom.

This is my beaver. So see Sophie, I’m, I love beavers. I drew him and then somebody made him for me. So, but you got to, and he has the trucker hat on, I think. Um, but that was another option. So how, cause this was like, um, an upsell. I wasn’t going to be coming home with it. This was going to be time and I also think that this is this is really interesting because I don’t know a lot of 10 or 11 year olds that are going to sit down and create.

So this is custom. You took custom made it and then you had to paint it and then you had to send it to me and Luckily, it was already paid for. Um, but like, this is a commitment by your parents, but also by you, if you had gotten 40 of these, so I don’t know how many you sold, do you know how many custom portraits you sold?

Several of them. The first year. Over 40?

No.

diane: I mean, cause that, that would be a lot. Would you have said, I can’t do anymore, dad. We got to take this off the table.

sophie: I think the first year we did, um, three, four of them, there were several people who, like, First, there was just someone who asked me, can you draw?

They saw, cause you know how, you’ve seen my booth before, so you know how I have those little paintings right there. Like, there were several people who asked, are those for sale? Yeah, like, and then I think somebody asked me again, and then we kind of got that idea. So,

harrison: so to do, yeah, we did commission work there at the booth and I think one of the things, but you were doing

diane: it at home.

It wasn’t like, right. You were, were you going to send them to everybody or were you doing it at the booth?

harrison: Yeah, we’re doing it at the booth the first year. Whoa, that’s

diane: pressure.

harrison: It is, and we figured out that that was a little bit of pressure, so we limited as far as that, you know, we’re only going to do so many here at the booth during, during, um, if somebody wants to commission, then, you know.

I was fine with it getting sent to me.

diane: It was, that’s, it was like, fun to get it, like that was a, I mean, I didn’t mind, but I know I’ve, I’ve paid for things from other kids of friends, you know, and then I’ve never gotten them. So I think I know. So I actually really think that there’s something and I love this.

It lives right here on my wall back here, but I wanted to bring it closer. But. So it takes something from y’all, but also like from Sophie, you don’t want to like burn her out, you know, like we got another five to do this weekend or 15 or 20 or something. It would be like, Oh my gosh, the joy is gone, you know?

Right. So, so how, how did it work this time? So did you do some that were on the floor? You would get some done during Creative South? Yeah,

sophie: kind of that way, but one of the things we found, like, people would make certain requests, like you requested a beaver, and like, there was one person who was, um, a vegetarian, but they really liked barbecues, so like, could he be holding a banana?

And somebody else, wasn’t it wanting Grumpy Frog holding a donut, Daddy?

harrison: I think you just drew the one with the donut, yeah.

sophie: Yeah.

harrison: That’s

sophie: cool.

harrison: Yeah, so, yeah, we, I think this time we limited 1 per so many hours, so we’re going to do 1 commission and that way we’re, we’re limiting how much is to be done. So there’s no pressure to try to get everything up and out.

So, therefore, you’re still able to, she’s still able to enjoy the conference and enjoy and then work on them at leisure.

diane: Because I didn’t mind. I don’t even remember how long it took. I don’t remember. I just remember I was super happy when I got it. But so how if say she was just flooded with these commissions, like how many would you do?

Would you want her to be doing in a week? Um, like, or would you say, you know, we’re going to raise the price so that less people ask for commission?

harrison: I would probably raise price. Um, just because that like

diane: how many is too many? Because I think about this as she’s She’s almost 12, you know, she’s got other things going on ballet, you know, there’s other things so I mean, what would be because I think this is a parent decision, but it’s also like, you know, I want to, I want her to understand that there’s some production, you have to do this, but it’s also I don’t want this to be, I don’t want to draw grumpy frog anymore, you know,

harrison: right?

Yeah. I mean, we haven’t really come to that conclusion as far as, Right now, because we haven’t had anybody outside of creative style, like, during creative South asked for commission pieces. So that would be something to really think about. Um, I would think at this point. You know, no more than a two a month, probably that’s good just so that you have them there.

There’s, there’s deadlines, but also you’re not, you know, burning out with, with that because again, the biggest thing is trying to keep this, uh, enjoyable. Yes,

diane: for sure. Okay. So, um. So, I know you’ve done a, you’ve done one other event besides Creative South, right? We’ve done two. Okay, so.

sophie: One of them was Pumpkin Palooza in LaGrange.

diane: Okay. Would you? Yeah. That’s

sophie: where I get gas. Kex at 18. Mm

hmm.

sophie: Yep. But that one was, it was a little bit slower. We didn’t have as many people there.

diane: How many vendors were there for the whole Pumpkin Palooza?

harrison: I think there was probably 10 vendors would be my guess. Okay. So it was much smaller. It was much smaller.

Uh, it was, uh, it was at a farm, I think it was the first year that they were doing it. Yes. Mm-Hmm. . And so it was kind of an intro, but also that kind of gave a good, um, a, a good a, a feeling or a good feel for what other events, what are they like. Um, and had y’all

diane: been to other events just as. Consumers like attendees and you’re thinking, oh, this would be a great place for grumpy frog, or you hadn’t kind of put those two and two together.

harrison: Yeah, I don’t really put those 2 and 2 together for the most part. Um, the only other, like, event type things we’ve been to have been, um, we have a thing downtown called market days. So we have people that set up on Saturdays in the springtime, um, throughout the summer. Selling and vending on the Broadway, uh, downtown Columbus.

And so Have

diane: y’all ever done that?

harrison: Uh, we haven’t. Um, we’ve thought about it, but

diane: Do you have to commit for the whole, cause it’s a lot of weekends, right?

harrison: Yeah, it’s correct. It’s, it’s every weekend from, I think it’s like April until it moves in through, through fall. And you don’t have to, there’s, there’s a one You know, uh, fee for the, for the whole season or for the whole time, right?

So one blanket fee, you go and you set up at the same spot. And, but you can, you don’t have to be there. You don’t want to, but you know, um, you’re open to go there every weekend. But that’s a lot of commitment for that is

diane: somebody so young. Oh, go ahead. No, you go.

harrison: I was going to say, yeah, just taking a look at probably would be the best thing to do is take a look at different festivals or maybe even conferences that would, uh, would fit if we’re going to go do that.

Because I think, um, Jimmy from Atomic Child, he was at, uh, Creative South when Sophie first started. For his first one, he said, you know, one of the things that he had done was he would go to different festivals and different places, uh, and just try to test to see, are these places that I would, uh, that, that my, my, um, target audience would be.

diane: So, Sophie, do you know who your target audience is?

Like, who buys your stuff the most? Hmm. Men or women?

sophie: I don’t know. It’s kind of

diane: Both? Okay. Is it people with kids or people single or no kids? You don’t have to be single. Do you know?

sophie: It’s kind of less people with kids but we did set up at another place, a place that I take ballet, Clement Arts, and there were a lot of kids there who were like Oh, I’m going past there and like, Ooh, I want that.

diane: So, Sophie,

sophie: you got to

diane: stand up because I want to see your shirt because your shirt is it’s it’s lily pad, right? I love that and love the color. So adding shirts are adding because I went to the website and I look I love that shirt in non youth. I love that. I was like, Oh, they don’t have I can’t fit the youth shirt.

But I love that color and you had. Some great colors and great things. So that’s also something where you’ve chosen to add another product, but can you talk a little bit about adding a product that’s not going to cost you anything to put on, can you talk a little bit about, so. At which point, like, where in the history of the Grumpy Frog business did you make a website?

harrison: That was, we did the website, um, we had planned on doing one, uh, a little bit earlier, like, after Second Creative South. Uh huh. Um It took some of the money set aside from that to, uh, go ahead and I think we, we purchased the domain name, um, in 2023 in hopes at some point to, uh, posting

diane: and stuff. Yeah.

harrison: Yeah.

And then. It was this year that, um, we went ahead and started doing, building out the site.

diane: So what, where do you host your site? Is it like Shopify or is it on WordPress, or is it Squarespace?

harrison: Yeah, right now it is, uh, we have a Wix account. Wix is where we, one, I

diane: didn’t mention . Right.

harrison: And the only reason we did was because one of the, uh, I guess it was Pumpkin Palooza.

We wanted to make sure that we had. Different ways to, uh, accept payments because the 1st year we were at Creative South payments that we only had were Venmo and PayPal and cash. And so that limited us as far as I mean, we know most people have 1 of 3 of those, right? But it’s easier to. Pull out your credit card or cap with now with your apple payments and such or google google payments and So we went out and bought a square reader so I bought that for uh pumpkin palooza that way because I I wasn’t sure who, who would be there as far as customers.

And you didn’t

diane: have to have a website for that at that point, right? You can just do square, you just say what the price is and you just run it through your phone, right?

harrison: Okay. And so since at that point, I had already purchased a point of sale system that for us, it was the best because there was no, I think no monthly fees that are, it’s just, you’re there, you have your account.

When they do the swipe, then they’re, um, that’s when the fees get pulled from you. And because I had Square account, I needed to find a website hosting company that would integrate with Square. And so that’s the reason why I went with Wix because they, um, that was compatible. I could bring that in and still use.

Um, that payment processing through website there. Now if you go to Shopify, I think they have their own, uh, POS system that they will, uh, give you. Um, so that way you’ve got the hosting site, et cetera, et cetera. It’s kind of a big package deal. But for us, that’s kind of our journey. From where we’re at.

diane: And that’s a lot more money for Shopify per month, right?

Yes, that

harrison: is, that is monthly. Um, so those are other things that you have to, uh, take into account, especially how, how large your company is, how much revenue that you’re. Bringing in and can you shift over to that yet or not? And right now we’re, we’re not, we’re not there yet. But, um, but those are things to think about.

Um, and so the nice thing that. Having a, uh, online site allows you or store that allows you is, um, the print on demand features. And so when that’s

diane: Sophie shirt,

harrison: that’s correct. And that’s Sophie’s shirt. And so we were able to, uh, get onto, I think print full is. The, uh, print on demand company that we are, uh, connected with and so it’s, it’s nice that the pros to it is that you’re not paying out of pocket right away for anything.

It’s just as soon as something gets purchased, you know, you get a percentage of that. Some

diane: of those are like, say the shirt costs them 10. You can say, Hey, I want to sell it for 18. And then you’re getting, they do the shipping. Everything is handled through them. But if something doesn’t ha doesn’t go right, then, you know, I don’t know if you can even return stuff off that I’ve never had that happen, but, but it is nice again, again, no money off your back, but it’s nice to have a sample to be able to.

Um, show. So I think you wear that sample super well. Okay. So I’m going to ask these last questions kind of rapid fire here. So Harrison, this one’s to you or well first let’s say, so Sophie, how do you describe If somebody were to call you a product designer, or you were saying to somebody, whether it’s an adult or a kid, how would you describe Grumpy Frog, um, is a product, and you have designed things, so some, can you define product designer in that way with being, you make products?

Do you think you could do that, Sophie? Do you like coming up with new products to sell? I guess is what I’m asking. Okay. So, so what, um, you had stickers first and then magnets, maybe magnets and stickers, right? Hand in hand, then hats. Then what, what was next? And are Sophie, are you driving this or is dad finding things and it’s like, Hey, let’s try this or a little bit of both.

sophie: Like. One of my favorite products is probably the little button pack and my dad said, Hey, what about some buttons? Do you think you’d like that idea? I was like, Oh yeah, I’d really like that. And so we tried that out and those are a pretty good seller. So yes, he kind of, he kind of will suggest things and like, sometimes I’ll make some changes.

Or I’ll say.

diane: You told me one thing that you would really like to make that y’all haven’t made yet. Can you tell everybody what that is? A plushie, a grumpy frog plushie. So tell people, just in case they don’t know what, my mom would not know what a plushie was. So tell, explain what it is. It’s like a little stuffed animal of a grumpy frog basically.

Perfect. And those are That’s a lot of customization and usually have some minimums and they take some time and you hopefully you get your investment back, but if you were to have a plushie, would it be like small or would it be like how big? Probably a smaller one. Like smaller than your head or like the size of your head?

Probably about the size of my head. Okay. Well, that’s good. Good to know. Okay. Plus, she’s hopefully you’re in the future.

Yeah. Would

diane: you have ever just described yourself as a product designer, Harrison?

harrison: Not, not, not to be, not to begin with, not until after You know, getting into, uh, helping Sophie out with her grumpy frog venture. Um, so, yeah.

diane: It’s funny. Cause I don’t think, I mean, I’ve had products as well, and I don’t think I would have ever described myself as a product designer, but to be honest, you’re designing products and you’re figuring things out.

And so it is one of the arms of product design. Okay. So Harrison, here’s these, uh, and. You guys can both answer, but this one’s for your dad. So Harrison, how has your traditional graphic design experience help you in deciding which products to invest in?

harrison: I think it’s the, the, from my experience of design, just the things that, um, that I guess I would enjoy.

That’s kind of one of the things like what, what can I design and seeing that, um, That can be taken places that people can take places or enjoy, like, for instance, hats hats or something that, um, throw on you, you walk out your I’ve had people ask and I’ve been wearing a barbecue barbecue shack. Hey, where, where’s barbecues, barbecue shack, you know, um, right.

Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so, you know, things, things that, that you can, uh, people can take with them that could, uh, that would. You know, enjoy. Uh, I think we recently had this week and put some mugs on the shop. Uh, you know, having a cup of coffee with a grumpy frog mug, you know, things things that would, you know, that I would like to design that would make me.

Smile. Um, and make others smile. So

diane: all right. This one’s another one for you, Harrison. So what are some of what you think are the biggest benefits that you’ve seen in Sophie as a result of doing this?

harrison: I think one of the biggest things, um, benefits for her has been, I think the first one is overcoming some of her shyness and being able to, um, um, Learn a little bit of customer service, uh, you know, at this age, I didn’t have the opportunity to really do that at this age that she’s at.

Um,

diane: shy as a kid.

harrison: Um, in some cases, it probably was a little bit, um, so, yeah, that was 1 thing that I would, I’d probably say that probably would have helped because the story with Stephanie or why my wife, um, she said that she was also extremely shy and it wasn’t until she was forced to, um. Uh, greet customers at the job that she was at, um, one time that kind of broke her ever shyness.

Uh, so that’s one thing, um, the customer service and being able to speak with, with people, uh, then also decisions on, you know, as far as the business goes, like, what does this look like? Um, the, the creativity of. Uh, the world building, uh, and storytelling that that is a big part of of what we’re doing is telling a story.

Um, so I think there’s a couple of benefits and then just also working. Uh, with somebody else, which is, of course, myself for a specific goal, you know, that’s the brainstorm process. Um, and then also a little bit of the last part, I think, would be a little bit of the economics of a business like. You know, okay, we’re spending this much money.

Um, yeah, we made this much money, but do we really make this much money? This money has just covered our costs. And how much does that go back into the business? How much does that do we get paid from that? Uh, how much do we give, you know, that type of stuff.

diane: So are there any, um, monetary or financial goals for the business for the year?

Is that something like you’re setting together? Are all three of you together? At the beginning, or is that something like we are going to do that from now on? We’re just trying, we’re just kind of figuring it out. But if, if somebody was doing this with their dad or with their mom or with their child, um, do you think it’s important that they have a goal, whether that be financial or not, um, but some sort of goal for this venture?

harrison: Yeah, I think goals are definitely important. Um, that. Uh, if you don’t have a vision of what your company or, or business is, is what you’re looking to do or achieve, then you have a good. Percentage of potentially failing that’s why branding is so important because part of the thing that you begin to figure out is what is what is your business about, you know, vision that you have.

So, having some sort of goal set up for the year, whether it’s monetarily or for, um, for us, I would think going to the events. Are we going to at the very least make what we have put into it? Because usually that means we don’t completely sell out. But we still have product to carry on for another event.

Um, also, um, you know, getting our, our name out there is another goal. Like how can we grow our, our audience?

diane: Yeah. Okay. So, um, Sophie, what has been your favorite product so far?

sophie: Um, the buttons. I love the little buttons. Oh, that’s

diane: cool.

sophie: My favorite.

diane: That’s awesome. Okay. Um, One thing we talked about a little bit on the pre show, um, was how do you measure quality?

So If you’re thinking about T shirts or the hats, we talked a little bit about maybe it’s what you would want, but, um, even we talked about different stickers, we’re not going to mention any other names, but you use Sticker Mule. One reason is for quality because it has stood up. So what are some things that you have seen that are important to know, um, when you’re buying stickers?

harrison: Yeah, like one of the things, um, as you had mentioned, there was another company that we had bought some stickers from and one of the Cecil salamanders, the run that they had, they would either fade quick or the, the top protective layer would actually peel off. And so that reflects on you as a business when you are selling a product.

So you want to make sure that you have, you know, something that’s going to be quality of somebody spending money for you. You want to build that trust. And so. That’s why I’ve pretty much stayed with Sticker Mule, uh, because we know that their quality has been good. It’s held up. Plus the, uh, the, um, the pricing sometimes is fantastic and the deals that they run are excellent.

diane: Well, I think Sophie had her water bottle and a lot of people put stickers on water bottles. So it’s also thinking about how your customer uses it. And what happens to the water bottle? It gets wet. And so it needs to not peel off when it gets wet. So that’s another kind of quality, um, that Some people might not realize like, Oh, or they put it on their car and you don’t want it to fade or peel off or things like that, knowing and doing stuff like that, I think is, it’s an important, um, I think, I think that’s an important part.

harrison: So there are, and there are companies like some of the other sticker companies that will, you can. Request like a sample pack of stickers, so they’ll send you a sample pack and so you can see all their products and it’s maybe, um, you know, 5 for that. So you can kind of gauge the feel of what they offer. I know we did that with, um, we were looking at some enamel pins that maybe at some point and we looked at, um, it was wizard pins and they gave you, uh, I think it’s like a.

They’re a little set of pins and it was, I think maybe 10 for the set. So you can take a look and see what they’re, what they offer. So taking

diane: advantage of some of those things is really helpful.

harrison: Yeah. And then getting, I think, um, gosh, I can’t remember. Take a look at also, if you’re looking at products as far as wearables, finding, uh, wholesalers or, or large outlets.

Places that will sell, um, some of the different hats, uh, buying, you know, just quantity of one on different types, just so you can feel them, see them for yourself that way. Again, you’re not out of pocket a whole bunch of money. You’re able to just kind of see that. And also, if you buy a shirt from someplace and you like the feel of it, that’s another thing.

Like, okay, where did, ask somebody, where did you get this? Or sometimes you’ll see, like with the, with some of the shirts, they’ll have, um, the printed in tags, but they’ll also have, uh, maybe. Billing Canvas will have just little tags that can be easily ripped off, but it has this is the company that right was used.

And so that way, you find out, okay, I like this brand. So I want to use that shirt.

diane: Have you ever thought? So, instead of just selling direct to customer, have you ever thought about going around some of the places in Columbus and see if they would carry some of her products?

harrison: There have been, uh, there’s been at least one that we’ve taken a look at and there are monthly, at least at one place was, was a monthly fee.

How’s it? So, um, that’s one of the things we have to take a look at too, is what the cost is monthly. What if

diane: there was no cost? It was like, no, we just want to put her product in our store and we’ll do a wholesale order. Have you thought about going not where it’s a fee to you. They pay you no fee. Right?

harrison: Yeah, that would be. Yeah, I would do it. I’d go check it out.

diane: Yeah. So I think sometimes just knowing what that first wholesale order, uh, the initial order has to be 150 or it has to be, you know, a certain amount to get. I think that that’s interesting. Okay. So, um, I’m trying to make sure that I have everything at least that I wanted to go over.

Okay. Sophie, how many times per week do you characters that potentially might be part of the series? Or are you like, Always drawing lots of different worlds.

sophie: So I tried to draw, uh, some grumpy frog stuff at least once a week. Okay. Do you draw other things? Have you ever thought about writing a book? Yes, I thought about that.

And like I said before, doing, trying to do some comics and stuff, but I know me and one of my friends are trying to write a book together. Not about Grumpy Frog, but about a different subject. Oh, nice.

diane: That’s cool. Alright, so you did talk about giving. So you are tithing. Um, because I know you love Jesus too.

So I just thought we could, uh, Is there anything in that part of, What you’re making. Um, because I’m like, what if you went huge and is this college money? Do you just say, Oh, Sophie, you can go buy with something in the toy aisle. So I was, I was asking like, what are you doing with these funds? And you had talked about, there’s definitely your tithing.

And then most of it’s just going back into the business because it is. small and you’re making investments in new products and things like that. But, um, can you talk a little bit about the choice to do tithing and to put it back into the business?

harrison: Yeah, so, um, you know, number one, as, as, uh, since we are, you know, Christians and have faith, uh, that’s just one of the, um, it’s, it’s a joy to be able to give back, you know, we’ve been blessed with what we have.

Um, so far, those who have been able to come and support us and, uh, the reception that, uh, we get for, you know, grumpy frog has been, you know, great. So it’s, it’s, it’s a joy to be able to give back in, in, in that, uh, extent when it comes to tithing. And, you know, if we are able to get to a point where this does make more, um, 1 of the things that we’d love to be able to do as far as giving is concerned is that the 1st year, um, in 2023 at creative South, uh, Sophie actually won a, it was a 1st year award that that.

They had done and she won an award, which got her an iPad. Um, and so, uh, that was very special to us. And so if we were able to give back into something like that for upcoming creatives, then that’s something that, you know, we’d love to be able to do in the future. Oh,

diane: that’s also tithing in a way you’re giving back to, um, other people who have, um, made a difference, even if it’s not just because she got an award.

It’s not because of that anyway, but like they’ve given her lots of encouragement. It was a great place to first start. Um, and I just think that that is a neat, neat part of the story. And congratulations for winning an iPad, Sophie. Thank you.

harrison: And so, yeah, and then just, you know, putting back the rest into, you know, investing in the company just to, what else, what would be the next thing that would be fun or what do we need to restock, you know?

diane: Yeah. All right, so what is coming, what is the, what is next? What’s the next thing we could be looking for? I don’t know if plushies are in the near future or if there’s, um, We just need to be coming to Creative South and there will be some new things there, maybe some limited edition, uh, custom pieces, which I always really enjoy.

Um, but what else, what’s next? What’s something or is, are you going to do anything for Black Friday?

sophie: No, we’re not going to do anything for Black Friday. She like said that super fast.

harrison: We haven’t really had any plans or thought of that for, you know, advertising or anything, but, um, yeah, plushies would be great.

I know that there’s a, um,

business for specific plushies and I think they’re called, I can’t remember the name of the company, but basically they’re crowdfunded, so if you have a, of course, if you have a large following That makes it easier. Um, but it is one of those where it’s crowdfunded where you can do, Hey, we’re going to do a grumpy frog plushie.

And this is, um, when the, the campaign starts and this is when it ends. Now, of course, it’s going to take a little bit longer to, to get it just because it’s crowdfunded. That’s another option as far as being able to get a plushie done, um, without having to come out of pocket a whole bunch. So I’m not sure what the, uh, Proceeds would be as far as money getting back.

Um, because I’m sure it’s one of those. They have to make so much of a run. You might break even, um, which is fine. That means we got grumpy frog plushies out there. Um, and, uh, so that would be that would be fun. But I think right now. It is trying to get, uh, our audience maybe expanded. So growing

diane: the audience is what your focus is now.

And making sure people know that if they touch toads, it doesn’t mean they’re going to get warped. That’s right. Well, I want to make sure everybody knows how they can go and find out more about you and hunt for some shirts and some hats and stickers and buttons and other things that are on your website, which is gcgrumpyfrog.

com. Very good that you got that GC under there, I think. And then you can always follow them on Instagram at gcgrumpyfrog at instagram. com slash gcgrumpyfrog. I guess I should have said that. Um, well, I’m excited. I, um, I have two things. I have a little Sparky that you guys made me and I love my painting.

So I’m gonna go put that back up on my wall right there and so I can see it every day and I can’t wait to see what is next and the buttons that you have and more magnets and more characters. So I think it’s pretty neat that you draw something grumpy frog or moss. bottom, um, land world, uh, at least once a week.

That’s pretty interesting. That’s a, that’s a good commitment, Sophie. Anyway, I love that you came up with this and that you keep creating the world. And I love that your dad knows enough about brands and that he can create this stuff for you and then help just. feed into your imagination. So I just love you both and I’m excited that you guys were on the show today.

So thank you.

harrison: Yeah. Thanks for having us.

diane: Absolutely. Any last words for somebody who, um, is like you, Sophie, maybe they draw a lot, but they, um, they don’t really know what to do with it. What would you tell them so that they wouldn’t get discouraged about their, their characters or their illustrations?

sophie: Well, um, I’d just say, going forward with it, but if you kind of feel discouraged, like, you can try another character, and, um, You can try different things, and if you like your artwork, then you can start continuing forward with it.

It’s

diane: good to show your artwork, too, right? Like, don’t, instead of just being, keeping it in your notebook and not showing anybody, sometimes, You never know. Yeah, who, um, you drawing that thing, uh, Grumpy Frog, um, made Mike look at it and said, Hey, I’m going to add him into my thing. And just so it takes a lot of bravery to show your art, I think.

So good job. Keep going. And you’re telling people to just keep going. If you get stuck with one character, go to another one. There’s plenty in your mind, right? That’s awesome. All right, so you guys can make sure you can check them out at gcgrumpyfrog. com And thank you guys so much, and we are continuing our product design series through the end of the year So there will be other people with products like y’all and then there will be other people who Are the other kind of product designer, but you guys are both product designers.

You can wear that As another label on your hat. Thank y’all so much. And I will see you guys soon.