Healing Through Art-Making: How Collage Helped Reverse a Serious Diagnosis

[00:00:00] diane: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode. It is episode 488 of, oh, Brian Bundy’s here too. Cleveland in the house. Um, it’s good to have everybody. It is a very humid day down in South Alabama where I am, but Ann is in, uh, outside of Richmond, Virginia, in Peterburg is where she teaches. But Ann Ford has been on the show before, a long [00:00:30] time friend.

[00:00:31] And, uh, how, what, this is number four. 

[00:00:35] Ann Ford: It was probably episode, it was probably episode four. 

[00:00:36] diane: Oh, yes, yes. You, yes. And you’ve been part, you’ve done camp, you’ve done power station, you’ve done everything. And I super appreciate it. And. You’re a good roomie to go to conferences with. So lots of, lots of great things, but Ann has been my friend for longer than I did the show, right?

[00:00:59] We were friends [00:01:00] before I started the show, but I want you to give everybody a little bit of a, your background. Um, I think you have a great story overall because you started school later and, um, so there’s this other story that we’re not even gonna talk about today, but Hannah’s here too. Hannah, good to see you.

[00:01:19] Hi Hannah. Um, so give them a little bit of your background and then, um, we are really talking about healing today, and you had [00:01:30] a big health thing and you’re gonna tell us about that. So first, tell us who you are, where you are, what you do. 

[00:01:38] Ann Ford: Ann Ford. Uh, I’m an associate professor of graphic design at Virginia State University.

[00:01:43] Um, I’ve been there for 16 years. Um, this is the first year in nine years. I haven’t been the chair of the department, so, um, it’s a little different. I’m enjoying back being back in the classroom again. Um, I have a, my own company, which has been kind of [00:02:00] on the back burner for, since I’ve been a chair, um, that I hope to bring back to the forefront a little bit soon.

[00:02:08] Um, as Diane said, I was a late bloomer. I started college when I was 30. Um, so everything that I’ve accomplished with design, um, has been in the past 30 years. 

[00:02:21] diane: So, 

[00:02:21] Ann Ford: and 

[00:02:22] diane: she’s written books on package design. Like, you know what? When you were here, I was like, why didn’t I have you? Um, like, I have this one, [00:02:30] which this is, see, and I don’t know why I didn’t have you sign it.

[00:02:35] I don’t know why. And look at, I have Post-Its all in it anyway. Um, but there are more books than just that, that are about packaging. So if you didn’t know, she’s great on packaging, but that’s not what we’re talking about today. We’re talking about healing because this was, why don’t you just take us in?

[00:02:54] Can you share your screen and, um, I’ll say Hey to Jen. Jen is here. She’s in [00:03:00] mobile too. It’s great to see you, Jen. So you had been struggling with a illness that nobody could define or nobody could give a, they just kind of rolled it over, right? Um, that was, uh, pretty serious. 

[00:03:20] Ann Ford: Okay, so this is a really personal story.

[00:03:23] Um. Last week before last was the first time I spoke about it in public. Um, [00:03:30] so I’m still kind of, you know, this is still a little raw, but, uh, living with a severe illness, um, presents a lot of different problems, um, both physically and emotionally. And the journey to diagnosis and, and treatment and recovery can be extremely overwhelming and often leaves us with feelings of isolation and vulnerability.

[00:03:50] Vulnerability, vulnerability. Um, so when times like this, the power of creative expression through art emerges as, [00:04:00] um, a transformative kind of tool for healing and coping with this serious illness. And so this presentation is an examination of my exploration through this healing process through art, um, and, uh, the impact of.

[00:04:18] How it helped me navigate through all of my, um, health issues. So by sharing the story, um, and exploring the psychological insights of [00:04:30] practical strategies, participants will understand how to create creative expression can be powerful. So, um, first of all, I’ve suffered with abdominal pain probably most of my life.

[00:04:45] I, I can, I can pinpoint it back to when I was probably in my early teens, uh, remembering having this pain. And the doctors could never find anything. Um, they, you know, when I was younger it was an [00:05:00] ulcer or it was, you’re eating this or it’s something to do with your duodenum, or it’s this, that and the other.

[00:05:05] And nobody really could really pinpoint anything. And then as I got a little bit older, the doctors were saying, well, you have some non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Just lose a little bit of weight, it’ll get better. Like acting like it wasn’t a big deal and you know, go from there. So after seeing multiple doctors in, um, the Richmond area, I had no answers.

[00:05:27] And my PCP suggest that [00:05:30] I go to what’s 

[00:05:30] diane: PCP mean? Primary care physician. Care Physician. Mm-hmm. We’re, you know, we’re in, um, my mom’s still here. Not that she probably would’ve known what she probably would’ve known, but you know, so, but this is years, this is not and this is decades you’re dealing with this.

[00:05:46] Yeah. Decades. This is like 

[00:05:48] Ann Ford: all of my adult life. Like up until. 2020. 2020. No. Yeah. 2021. So, um, [00:06:00] well actually now it’s, it’s still not going away. It’s still there. Uh, so my primary care physician said, well, why don’t you go to one of these diagnostic hospitals? So I decided to go to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.

[00:06:16] And, um, so after seeing multiple doctors and being tested and retested and tested again, and, um, the, the doctor, the first doctor I saw was a liver specialist. And she [00:06:30] looks at me and she said, well, you have, uh, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. And I, you know, rolled my eyes and said, okay, yeah, Uhhuh, you know, thinking, oh, here we go again.

[00:06:38] And she was like, no, you don’t understand. Um, this is, uh, extremely serious. Um, and nobody had said that to you before? Yeah, nobody had, had, nobody had ever said that to me. Um, and you know, around this time we were still face-to-face at VVC or we were [00:07:00] not face-to-face at, at VSU and so we were still remote, still trying to run a department and teach classes remotely and um, ’cause we were out quite a, a, a little bit longer than most everybody else was.

[00:07:13] Um, so everything started spiraling outta control, like right all around this time. This was really taking a severe, uh, toll on my emotional, physical, um, health. So, um, [00:07:30] so I had that appointment, uh, in May of, or excuse me, in September of 2021 and I saw, I don’t know, maybe five different doctors in that whole week I was there.

[00:07:44] Um, and. Multiple tests. So a little bit about non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, it is considered a silent killer. So it’s mainly people who don’t have, um, like don’t drink [00:08:00] alcohol, right. And that are a bit overweight. And so I had struggled with weight all my life, and so this was not really, you know, I wasn’t really like, I wasn’t real concerned about it because they said, oh, everybody’s got a little bit of it, you know?

[00:08:14] Um, so this is kind of, um, what the stages of liver disease looks like. But this was the first time somebody said, no, you could die if you 

[00:08:26] diane: don’t make changes. 

[00:08:27] Ann Ford: Right? Right. So, sh [00:08:30] when she started talking about this, she was like, you’ve got a life-threatening liver disease. You have what they call nash, um, which they call it MASH now, but I’m gonna, and it’s a, he.

[00:08:45] Heto Secular can, um, disease that can lead to cancer hep keer cancer. Okay. And, um, it’s the leading cause of liver transplants. And so [00:09:00] it’s when you get significant scar tissue, so you see a healthy liver here, and then fatty liver. Mine was fibrosis at this point. Okay? It, I, I was beyond fatty liver. I was already into fibrosis and I was maybe steps away from cirrhosis.

[00:09:15] And, um, so while I was there, um, getting all these tests, they were like, well, you’ve gotta lose 20% of your body weight, which is a lot, right? Yeah. Think about it, you guys do add [00:09:30] 20% of what your body weight is, and then think about losing that and being significantly overweight. That was a lot of weight.

[00:09:36] So, um, I, uh.

[00:09:42] That alone. And they said, well, you can’t do this without, um, weight loss surgery. And I’m like, great, great, great. Um, so I came home and didn’t know what to do. Um, you know, traveling back and forth to Minnesota, [00:10:00] you know, every four to six months was not possible financially or professionally. And doctors at Mayo are like, you need to lose this weight now.

[00:10:08] You can’t wait. You know, we gotta get, you have to have this weight loss surgery. And, um, not to mention that they did all of the testing required for, uh, a liver match. ’cause they thought my liver would go before I could lose this weight. So, um, when I got home, um, [00:10:30] VCU Health had announced this, you know, liver Institute, um, and don’t ask me to say these guys’ names.

[00:10:39] That’s okay. But they, um, and it was kind of like, oh, this came out in the news. It was like within a few days of me getting back from Minnesota and I was like, well, I’m gonna make an appointment. Right? This was September of 21. I didn’t get in until May of 22. Wow. So in the meantime, I was trying to [00:11:00] lose weight, you know, struggling with it.

[00:11:03] Um, when I went and saw these, the doctor, um, on, on May 16th, 2022 at the Liver Institute, um, she was very concerned and she too said I needed to lose weight. And again, the only way to do it was weight loss surgery. Well, there’s a wrinkle in that because with the insurance I’m on with the Commonwealth of Virginia, I had to go through a year of psychiatric therapy before they would pay [00:11:30] for it.

[00:11:31] So my liver, uh, transplant specialist sent me to the VCU Health Weight Loss Clinic. There I met this amazing doctor and, uh, I got an appointment the very same day. I literally left the office of the liver specialist and by the time I got to the car, my phone was ringing and it was this office calling me to get in there.

[00:11:52] So I went that day. And, um, she specializes in weight loss [00:12:00] and the time we put a plan in place to lose weight as quickly as possible. But the two doctors that day said this to me. Both of them said, they looked at me and said, if you don’t take some time off and reduce your stress, you’re gonna die. Um, that was a wake up call.

[00:12:17] So, um, 

[00:12:19] diane: but easier said than done teaching, being chair, you have a lot of responsibilities. 

[00:12:25] Ann Ford: So I came home. Yeah. Big wake call. I, I was. All I could do was cry. [00:12:30] Um, I, I had a stressful job and responsibilities and I couldn’t ignore any of that. And so I came home that day and called the provost and spoke to him about what was going on and at the, but I, at this time, I had not told anybody.

[00:12:43] Um, no one knew I had put in for some time off, um, some research leave. Um, but I didn’t put in for medical leave. I, I basically just put in for some research leave just so I could reduce my stress a little bit. Um, [00:13:00] so I didn’t want, you know, I, I, he wanted me to start that day and I was like, I had too many things to, to finalize for the semester and get ready.

[00:13:09] So, so, uh, eia that was the fall semester I took off. Um, and so this is where the collage comes in. Okay. So I’m gonna start playing it.

[00:13:28] Where’d it go? I 

[00:13:29] diane: [00:13:30] don’t know. I don’t see it. 

[00:13:31] Ann Ford: There it is. Do I make, how do you make this one full screen, Kevin? Oh, there you go. Okay. So I’m just gonna play through this. Will you just move your mouse so it’s 

[00:13:43] diane: not on top of it? Okay. 

[00:13:44] Ann Ford: Thanks. Uh, I’m gonna, I’m just gonna play through this and talk a little bit before you know about what was going on.

[00:13:50] These are digital. You started off 

[00:13:52] diane: digitally. 

[00:13:53] Ann Ford: Well, yeah. I started off, you know, and I’ll talk, I’m gonna talk about that. Okay. But, so before the conversation [00:14:00] and after returning from the Mayo, I began to do some collage work. I’d been collecting e FMR for years, magazines, newspapers, um, objects, printed materials, things like that.

[00:14:11] And I started doing physical collage. But, and I’d started it several years ago, but the, my son and his children and wife and children were living with us and I just didn’t really have any place to spread out. And so. I began working digitally, um, and especially after, um, Photoshop [00:14:30] came out with the Photoshop for the iPad so I could carry this iPad with me.

[00:14:35] I had all this digital, um, uh, ephemera and images and things like that, and then I was able to use, um, things I’d purchased from Creative Market and some other sites plus, um, the Adobe stock. And um, so this is kind of [00:15:00] was my healing thing. I had been working with Diane on a group where we were doing, um, her, what was it called?

[00:15:09] Our station Yeah. Power Station. And I was trying to figure out a way to. Make money, like, so I was trying to redo my website and things like that so that I could get some clients so that if something happened I had to like have a liver transplant and be off work for a while. I could like, you know, [00:15:30] uh, have some income coming in.

[00:15:33] And, um, this group encouraged me to show this and I showed it and kind of shared a little bit of the story and they encouraged me to continue. So I kinda started doing this and honestly, it’s what got me through. Um, I was able to escape and not think about anything else. And to answer before anybody [00:16:00] asks, there was nothing, um, about these that I plAnnd.

[00:16:04] I. Um, they were all spontaneous. I would just sit down and it depended on what music I was listening to, what mood I was listening to, and or what mood I was in. And, um, some of them started, when they started off, they were really dark. Um, and you can tell, like when I went back looking through all of this, I could really see where, um, the days that I was in a lot of pain or [00:16:30] stressed out or something like that, that, that these, that they had a different feel.

[00:16:35] Um, and I look, talked about going back through and maybe changing some of them up and then I was like, no, this was something I did for me. Um, it was, they were really never meant to be shared. Um, because that was just my healing, you know, part. Um, so there are over 200 of these, um, from May of 2022 [00:17:00] through Wow.

[00:17:02] Actually, I have probably five or six new ones that I’ve done in the past week and a half 

[00:17:07] diane: because it’s something that you’re coming back to all the time. Again, what I love is that it’s this purpose of creating, which, how often do we just do this? I mean, I don’t know about y’all, but I am not creating for, I, I didn’t use to create for me very much.

[00:17:25] I always kind of had like, well, I can use this for this client. And so, [00:17:30] but when Ann shared this, it was like, wow, she was, and color combinations, things that maybe we wouldn’t be able to see, or maybe there’s this storyline or maybe it’s just in her head or, um, she’s just bringing things, textural things or this is what was like so freeing to me.

[00:17:51] I actually think collage is really difficult. I love collage, but it can be, I don’t know if this would’ve been my, [00:18:00] um, safe place to go because I. I am too hard on myself. So I actually, that you are able to do this with collage and that you were just, just full force. So you did a ton digitally, you still do digitally, but you also started incorporating, at what point did you start incorporating, um, 

[00:18:22] Ann Ford: analog?

[00:18:24] It was probably about a year ago. I, I got into my studio, which is where I am right now, [00:18:30] and kind of organized everything so that I could spread out and just be able to play with things and not have to put ’em up right away. Right. I was doing ’em in the living room, you know, and I had to clean it up all the time and I was like, this is pain.

[00:18:47] So I came in here and kind of started organizing things and then I started, you know. My space behind me. I left it like I had when I was working on it [00:19:00] the other day, um, where things are just kinda spread out. Um, and, and then I got, I saw this, um, post on Instagram where somebody was doing collage in board books.

[00:19:15] And if you don’t know what a board book is, is a child’s children’s books are made out of board, so they’re kind of thick. And I really liked that idea. So I was like, well, I’m gonna buy me a board book and see what that does. Um, [00:19:30] ’cause prior to that I was just using a sketchbook, and so now I’m on, well, I’ve got one finished, one almost finished one, and I’ll talk about it in a minute.

[00:19:41] I’ll show you. One was a little bigger and so I had some trouble with it. Um, I, I struggled with it a little bit, but, um. But I’m enjoying that part where I started with the physical. Um, and a lot of the, the physical came about [00:20:00] from organizing, um, my workspace and going through all of those. I mean, I couldn’t tell you how many boxes of ephemera I have.

[00:20:11] I mean, it’s just box after box, after box. Um, and then I also have, uh, when I went to Italy between my first and second year of grad school, I have 7,000 pictures. A lot of that’s being incorporated in here. Um, you know, some of the, uh, [00:20:30] I love to draw type, and so I have a whole sketchbook of nothing but type lettering.

[00:20:34] And so I’m incorporating some of that in here. And so all of that’s kind of coming into it. And then this one there on the left is from, um, a, a. Sheet from Hoosier Press where it was just an off sheet of the press that, you know, the test print and, and I got a few of those and kind of incorporated that in there.

[00:20:54] And I mean, there’s just a lot of different things. There’s brushes, um, there’s multiple [00:21:00] layers. Um, yeah, so it’s, it’s just a lot of different pieces that are put together. Um, this is another Hoosier type piece. Um, but I, I mean, I just, I can’t stop, uh, I can’t stop it. Like it, there are days that I can’t wait to get in here and play around, or I can’t wait to pick up my iPad and, and start doing it again because it’s just so [00:21:30] freeing.

[00:21:31] Yeah. 

[00:21:32] diane: Okay. So Kevin and I both got, she, he said, yeah, and spontaneity is pretty amazing. I would’ve overthought these and not been able to complete them so regularly. So how were, how were you able for this to be able to just turn off that kind of, um, critical thinking or, and just ’cause you really got into a play Yeah.

[00:21:54] State. Um, 

[00:21:58] Ann Ford: I was gonna get in there. [00:22:00] Uh, yeah, and I, I really, I don’t know. I mean, to be quite honest with you, I can’t, all I know is that I sat down and most of the time I had headphones in and I was just trying to escape from reality. Um, and it was just really, it was really difficult to, to do that. And this is really all I could find.

[00:22:27] Like I couldn’t read. I loved to read. I couldn’t [00:22:30] read, even watching TV was, was to, it was a point where it was just like, you know, I couldn’t focus, right? I sat down to do this. I could focus and, um, I really, uh, I really enjoyed what I was doing. Um, after,

[00:22:52] so to wrap things up, after this whole experience, um, mainly with the digital closet, I didn’t really start [00:23:00] physical collage until, uh, maybe a year ago. Mm-hmm. Um, but since then I lost 85 pounds. I, um, my fat in my liver is almost gone. So you’ve reversed, I’ve reversed the, the fatty part, um, and I’m trying to, working on reversing the fibrosis now.

[00:23:26] That is the only part that has not in [00:23:30] gotten better. Um, but I also met with another doctor at VCU Health that, um, was determined. She was a, a resident fellow. Mm-hmm. Um, she was trained to be a gastroenterologist and she, uh, she actually found the source of my pain. So the pain that I have had since I was a teenager and nobody else could find.

[00:23:55] And that alone was just like, [00:24:00] I was like, I, I realized, you know, I finally said, well, I guess I’m not crazy after all, or this, I do have this pain. So I have this pain for the rest of my life and there’s really nothing that can be done about it besides surgery. And surgery hasn’t been successful. So, um, but.

[00:24:18] Other than, you know, all my liver functions are normal. Every, all my blood tests are normal. The only thing that we’re still watching is the, the fibrosis in my liver, and we’re gonna test that again in [00:24:30] March. So stress 

[00:24:31] diane: wise, um, this just, and it, for anybody who’s maybe going through this, what I kept thinking, and somebody might be dealing with this, they might have some weird disease that nobody can, uh, pinpoint.

[00:24:46] Or maybe they’ve been told the same thing about, uh, fatty liver, oh, just lose some weight. It’ll be fine, that it actually is more serious and that the stress on top of it doesn’t help. Um, I love that you didn’t think, you’re [00:25:00] like, I’m gonna do art therapy, but that’s really what it became, was this regular.

[00:25:06] Place to retreat, and I think they’re amazing. Beautiful. I’m like, Ooh, I would like that one. I would like to buy that one. And, and I’ve talked to her about this a lot, and she’s like, you tell her what? You tell them what I, what you would say. 

[00:25:23] Ann Ford: They were never really meant to be shared. Like Diane convinced me to do an Instagram 30 day thing, [00:25:30] and I shared them for 30 days and, and I cringed every time.

[00:25:34] And I don’t know why. Um, other than they weren’t meant to, they weren’t made for anybody with me. Um, so, and then a lot of it is, um, I, I just, I, I used like stock images and things like that that I have to go back in and purchase and going back through all that is just too much. So [00:26:00] kind of moving into the physical is more, um.

[00:26:05] You know, it’s, if I decide to sell them, then that, that’s probably the way I’ll go rather than the digital. Although I do have a lot of digital scans that I can make digital ones out of which I have one on here. Um, but it’s about being 

[00:26:18] diane: strategic on, okay, these are in the past and now these are all things I own, or these are all things I’ve purchased, um, or I’ve scAnnd from things that I’ve [00:26:30] collected.

[00:26:30] Now I’m gonna make things, and these are available to, or purchase or available for, uh, maybe somebody wants to put it on a a, a sketchbook or, or a book cover or whatever. Like, then you’re able to do more of, more of that. But in the beginning it was healing, it was not. And I love that. It was just for Ann and I, I love looking at them for sure, but I totally get, um, [00:27:00] that that wasn’t the purpose.

[00:27:01] And sometimes I think. It’s really important to make things for the purpose of ourselves. Like I think we forget, I don’t know about y’all. Maybe you could put in the chat if you think, um, or if you’re watching on YouTube later. Um, right. I never make art for myself or just for myself or I do, you know, like, I think that, um, maybe sometimes we don’t prioritize that.

[00:27:27] And I know for sure that’s a Ann issue, that’s a [00:27:30] Diane issue. Um, but how did this help you prioritize you? 

[00:27:38] Ann Ford: Um, it kind of made me stop and rest, um, which I hadn’t done. Um, I was gone 90 miles an hour, you know, 

[00:27:53] diane: because you feel responsible and you wanted to do a good job and you didn’t wanna let anybody down.

[00:27:57] Ann Ford: Right. And, you know, I was responsible for [00:28:00] departments, a lot of students and faculty. And, um, that’s a lot that, uh, most, excuse me, most faculty don’t understand until they’re in that position. And, um, to have been in it for as long as I was, it had just taken its toll on me. And I loved what I did. But, um, also this time I took off and this process of, uh, [00:28:30] this basic college therapy is, um, I did learn how to put myself first.

[00:28:37] And if nothing else, then that’s something that if anybody gets anything out of this, is that I was the worst at that. I was the worst at putting myself first. And I can still remember Diane telling me, I. When I was doing that website, that was just killing me. That, and she goes, what makes you happy when you’re doing it?

[00:28:59] And [00:29:00] I said, collage. And she said, then you should do collage. And it was after that, that, so she has a lot to do with this too. Um, it was her support that kind of pushed me into this, okay, I’m gonna do this and I’m really gonna just give myself the time and sit back and enjoy it. And, um, making time for ourselves is really bad.

[00:29:22] Yeah. It’s hard. Yeah. Um, so, you know, it, it’s kind of like you, you’ve [00:29:30] gotta take this time. And I may never have gotten here without that diagnosis. 

[00:29:37] diane: Right, because you didn’t, you weren’t putting yourself first and I mean, you had the materials for the collage, you had been storing them. So I, I do like that you took some time.

[00:29:50] Was it in that fall semester that you organized everything? 

[00:29:54] Ann Ford: Partially, yeah. In between, like I told, I was probably at the doctor’s office [00:30:00] probably one or two days a week during that time off, um, for one test or another, um, you know, wanting to put me in clinical trials and things like that. But, um, that was really scary.

[00:30:17] Um, and I, and I, I look back and I think, you know, as much as I love what I do and I love my students, um, we have to, [00:30:30] to not do this to ourselves, we have to like learn to let go a little bit. And, uh, allow some time for ourselves. And, and I don’t it, it doesn’t have to be even art. It could be reading a book or going for a walk or whatever.

[00:30:43] So I try to encourage the students, um, to actually do that is uh, give themselves some time to play. They need time to play because we forget how to play when we become, yeah, 

[00:30:56] diane: we just are trying to make it, make money or make it, uh, [00:31:00] help us to get to that next step. But if we aren’t around to take that next step, uh, it is really hard.

[00:31:07] So El Alicia says, we love you too. Mama Ford with four Ds four. I love that. Uh, uh, so why do you think, ’cause I think you could tell me, ’cause you know me well, and you could be like dying. You’re not taking in enough time for yourself. Um. What would you tell somebody who, ’cause I really do believe you and I both have said, I just can’t, I [00:31:30] can’t, I cannot stop.

[00:31:31] I’ve heard you say those words. So what would you say, because I think doing the collage was you were like, I can fit this in, this isn’t that difficult. Um, and I’m not doing it for any reason. I’m just gonna, it’s like playing a game maybe on your phone or your iPad, but instead you’re making something.

[00:31:52] And I actually think art instead of just making, getting to another level in a game, which I think sometimes games fun. [00:32:00] My husband always gives me a hard time when I play certain games, but, um, but I think sometimes it is actually the making the creation part that is part of that healing. And then you had to be bold to show it to our group.

[00:32:16] And then you had to be really bold to, um, show it to the people at the conference. Um. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

[00:32:27] Ann Ford: That was rough. Um, [00:32:30] I was wore out the rest of the day after that, um, because it was kind of like, like Diane, you encouraged me to share the story because of it could be, it could reach someone else to do the same thing.

[00:32:44] Um, and so, you know, I got to a point where I, I made the decision I was gonna do it. Um, and then I submitted it to a paper and it got accepted and then I was like, well, I gotta do it now. So, [00:33:00] um, and, and at first I was like, why would anybody wanna hear about this? You know, why, why would anybody wanna know about my story and my personal journey and whatever.

[00:33:13] But I guess if it helps one person, then it’s worth it. And, um, so. But Diane, you and I both have the same problem about not making time, but I will say that that month I took off, [00:33:30] um, was a time where I kind of got in a habit. And so if I went a couple days without doing one, I was like, I need to go do this.

[00:33:42] You know, was something was pulling me. Mm-hmm. Um, and it still does. Um, it’ll pull me to, I don’t wanna be in, in here, you know, working. Right. Um, instead of, you know, so 

[00:33:55] diane: I think, I think starting something that is a [00:34:00] small little challenge to get you in that habit, or even if it’s just a, in like a, it’s just something you’re doing for you.

[00:34:06] Something that again, is easy. ’cause you started out with digital, um, you were using Photoshop. You knew how to use, use Photoshop. So it was an old tool. You knew how to use the iPad, you know, um, and you were just playing. Um, and not for a purpose. And it, it may have started as like 15 minutes, but sometimes you would, [00:34:30] and you’ve talked about this, hours would, hours 

[00:34:32] Ann Ford: would, hours would go by and I would look up and go, oh my gosh, I’ve been sitting here for like two, three hours and not realize it.

[00:34:41] Um, 

[00:34:42] diane: that’s that flow state. I think people, so, you know, if you’re like, if you’re a reader, um, and hours go by, then maybe it is reading, maybe it’s writing, maybe it’s, um, something completely else. I think like Brandy’s here, she’s a awesome writer, [00:35:00] but sometimes it’s hard to do the writing if. It’s for you, or if it’s for something that’s fun, you don’t feel like you should spend time doing that.

[00:35:09] But I think that this is where, yes, Ann was losing weight. She was going to doctor’s appointments, but this actually was a big part of healing. I mean, in this amount of time when she’s working full-time minus this one semester, of course my nose is running, but I have a tissue, an old tissue anyway. I mean, it’s [00:35:30] not a dirty tissue, thankfully, but it’s been on my desk a long time anyway.

[00:35:34] Um, but like it’s, what could we do little things to help create that habit of healing. And I think sometimes you have to figure out what that, um. What that is. So to me, collage, I love collage. It is way hard. I think it’s hard. I am, it’s probably not that for me, [00:36:00] but man, you gimme some scissors and paint and I can cut out some things.

[00:36:03] That is my thing. Like how many watermelons do we need? You don’t need as many as I made, but I just really have fun making things and I, I like to do things. So that would be mine. But I have tried many other things and I definitely draw, I definitely, I would like to do collage and it is very, um, inspiring to me to see the different, um, passes.

[00:36:28] And, and one [00:36:30] beautiful thing about you doing it in Photoshop is that it can convert over to the computer easy, but you also have your layers. It wasn’t like she had to learn another program ’cause she already knew. 

[00:36:41] Ann Ford: Mm-hmm. Right. 

[00:36:42] diane: Right. I think it’s, you gotta make it easy. So one of the things about digital is that you had two grandkids in your house.

[00:36:48] You had your son and daughter-in-law, and you still found a way to, um, explore and, and make time for this. So in [00:37:00] the beginning, how much time, I said, how did you carve out your time when your schedule was so tight? Like, like, that’s hard. It’s not like you had a huge house. So these kids were all around, you wanna spend time with your grandkids, but you also needed, like, how did you do that?

[00:37:18] It 

[00:37:18] Ann Ford: was usually at night when they went to bed. They went to bed right after I went to bed because I would take the I iPad to bed with me and kind of where that was my quiet place. Yeah. [00:37:30] Um, and that’s how I carved out time. Then, then, and then, um, I. After that, after we moved into this house, it was more weekends.

[00:37:40] Saturday, Sundays, you started 

[00:37:42] diane: spending more time on your off days. Um, like would you start in the morning and then it would end up being lunchtime and you’re like, oh my goodness, where did the time go? 

[00:37:52] Ann Ford: Well, no, I would probably do the stuff I needed to get done around the house first first and sit down with it and um, and then play.[00:38:00] 

[00:38:00] Um, but I still do it in the evenings. 

[00:38:05] diane: Okay. Alright. So talk a a little bit about the process. So, um, since you work, work both analog and digital, um, when do you start on paper and use traditional? And I love that you have two different size books. You got frustrated with one size, um, you started themes and maybe that again, you have to try lots of things and figure out what works for [00:38:30] you, but I guess I’m just encouraging everybody.

[00:38:33] I hope you make some time to play and make some art. Right. Whatever the art is, whether it’s with words or whether it’s music or whatever. But most of us are visual people, so Okay. How, where do, where would you start? 

[00:38:49] Ann Ford: Um, I usually just start with, and I’ll just go with this one. Okay. I’ll turn the layers off real quick.

[00:38:55] diane: And what would be the difference? So if, when did you start [00:39:00] working more analog as opposed to digital? 

[00:39:03] Ann Ford: It’s kind of similar. Um, I’ll put something down on the background and usually it covers the entire background. This particular one was some ephemera that I had scAnnd in,

[00:39:19] I think it’s from 1940. Some hand letters that I had, got some ephemera, and then I’ll add something else. [00:39:30] And then I’ll add, so then 

[00:39:30] diane: are you just going through your, how are they organized? Like how are your files organized that you’re going through? Like, I’m looking for Brown, or is it, I’m looking for something with hair or like, they are literally, it’s in stuff.

[00:39:47] Ann Ford: So birds and my hand lettering and Amy’s art deco toolkit and Amy’s here. Um, and so it’s just in here. And [00:40:00] then, so not 

[00:40:00] diane: by color, it’s just by subject kind of. So if you were starting with this letter, then you went to that, the other book cover, like where would you have gone? Was it just backgrounds? 

[00:40:15] Ann Ford: N no, I just, I kind of know where everything is.

[00:40:19] Mm-hmm. Because you go through ’em enough. Yeah. And so where is my master downloads file here? 

[00:40:27] diane: Master downloads. That sounds like [00:40:30] master downloads. There. They’re, there we go. So Adobe, we all have files like that though. 

[00:40:37] Ann Ford: Adobe stock. So this, the stuff that’s not in the folder is new. Right. So haven’t gone through yet.

[00:40:45] Oh. But then I have background ephemera, handwriting, holiday illustrations. And so the backgrounds mostly are stuff like this. Mm-hmm. You know, they’re kind of solid. Mm-hmm. Areas. Right. Would you start with something like [00:41:00] that? Yeah. Sometimes. No, I start with this one. Okay. But this one I wanted to, this was because after we were talking, when we were at CCAC, I was like, I’m gonna go make something that I own that’s in my right.

[00:41:15] Everything here is something that I have rights to that I wouldn’t have to go buy rights to. Right. So that’s kind of where this one came from. Now these here are just brushes, right? [00:41:30] And you can buy brushes like that, right? Mm-hmm. Right? So that’s what this one is. Okay? This one started with a background.

[00:41:42] What about those 

[00:41:42] diane: buntings? I love that 

[00:41:46] Ann Ford: there’s a lot of layers on this. One. 

[00:41:47] diane: Is the buntings, is that like something you purchased that was already clipped out? This No, the buntings, those little paper triangles that you put across a party 

[00:41:59] Ann Ford: [00:42:00] thing. Okay. Yes, that was a image. So I started this as a background image, but notice this is all Adobe stock, right?

[00:42:08] That’s Adobe stock. Oh, that, okay. All of this is Adobe stock. Okay. So what I can do is I can go back, if I wanted to make, I could go back in and purchase all this because I left them as Adobe stock images so that, so you couldn’t get the number and go 

[00:42:22] diane: buy it if you needed to. 

[00:42:23] Ann Ford: I can go back. 

[00:42:24] diane: Oh, that’s a good idea.

[00:42:26] So Hannah says, is the ripped paper scAnnd in that way, [00:42:30] or did you tear it in Photoshop? Again, this is also if you didn’t wanna buy that, you could create some, some of these might. What I love also is that it gives you ideas for something that you also could create on your own, right? 

[00:42:42] Ann Ford: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the paper was torn already, and so then I just started building an image in this piece, you know?

[00:42:54] Oh, it is. So 

[00:42:54] diane: sometimes when I’m doing collage, I feel bad for the things that I’m covering up. Do you ever feel [00:43:00] bad about the mushroom? 

[00:43:01] Ann Ford: Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. But then it gives it a little bit of, um. Mystery. Yeah. Yeah. These are all brushes. I usually go back in with brushes towards the, at the end.

[00:43:14] Okay. Had a texture usually to give it some kind of texture 

[00:43:18] diane: and the texture gives it continuity all the way through. 

[00:43:22] Ann Ford: So that’s that one. And then I love that one. This is one that I was going to use for [00:43:30] the presentation. The presentation. And then I was like, I didn’t end up using it, but, so this is what fatty liver disease looks like now.

[00:43:40] It’s kind of grayed out and I’ll show you another one. It’s got more details, but then I got these pictures of women grabbing their abdomens and this feeling of wrinkles and, and then I just started adding things that kind of made [00:44:00] I, things I felt like, um. Things I were just feeling, um, at the time. And so that’s kind of what that one is like you can see there at the end.

[00:44:16] Um, 

[00:44:16] diane: what about layer four? 

[00:44:20] Ann Ford: Oh, all right. Um, this one is, you can see this. That’s what your fatty, that’s what fat Oh 

[00:44:27] diane: yeah. 

[00:44:28] Ann Ford: It’s like on a [00:44:30] scan. Um, so I put that in there and I put in self-care. There’s multiple layers in here too. Um, but that one was like, you know, kind of trying to use something that, um, that kind of felt like this one.

[00:44:48] I, I intentionally didn’t turn anything. I left everything either vertical, horizontal. 

[00:44:53] diane: Sometimes they weren’t about fatty liver, they, they could have been about nothing. Like you were just like this, you wanna [00:45:00] start with this color. Or there are some ones that you had done in the beginning that were kind of darker because it was how you were feeling.

[00:45:07] Right. Right. And I think that was important that it didn’t have to have, you weren’t trying to tell a story. You may have a story now as you see things together, but you were just pulling things. It was just intuitive. Right, 

[00:45:22] Ann Ford: right. So this is the back of the board booking. So this is the cover. So [00:45:30] anybody wants to know on board book size wise.

[00:45:32] Yeah. This is how, what the size of it is. Right. 

[00:45:36] diane: And how many pages? So a board book’s usually for little, little kids, like, I don’t know, kids who are teething or, I don’t know. I didn’t know that. How thick 

[00:45:44] Ann Ford: the pages are. 

[00:45:45] diane: And so what would you do? You would get a board, a book, and then how would you, would you just.

[00:45:50] It started gluing on top of it? 

[00:45:52] Ann Ford: No, I ripped all the stuff that was on it and so it left this really kind of rough [00:46:00] texture. You can see it in the picture really well. Mm-hmm. And then I would go through with, um, some ink and a brush and then kind of distress it a little bit and make it look a little bit distressed.

[00:46:12] So, um, so this is the, the spread of the cover. That’s 

[00:46:19] diane: the back uhhuh, back cover, front cover. 

[00:46:22] Ann Ford: And then I 

[00:46:23] diane: like that. Don’t look back. You’re not going that way. 

[00:46:28] Ann Ford: So this is kind of like, I [00:46:30] would start, I started with this tear piece of paper. Um, so what 

[00:46:35] diane: kind of paper? So this is, this is where I’m like, oh, I don’t, I don’t wanna use all my good stuff, you know, ’cause then it, I might wanna use it later or So.

[00:46:44] Would you scan things when you’re working digitally? It’s not that bad. But Would you use like scrapbook paper or were you using 

[00:46:53] Ann Ford: Some of it is, some of it isn’t. Some of it’s stuff I purchased. Okay. Um, and I have a whole [00:47:00] tote full of scraps of paper. Um, some things I’ve scAnnd in some things I haven’t.

[00:47:07] Mm-hmm. Um, this is not necessarily scAnnd in a lot of stuff I bought, um, as old looking ephemera so that it would look, give it this, this antique look, which is something I was going after. Mm-hmm. At the time I just felt like it was something that spoke to me, so I kept it. Um, so from, [00:47:30] from it’s scrapbook paper.

[00:47:32] Okay. So it’s paper that I bought at Michael’s. Mm-hmm. It’s just 

[00:47:37] diane: textured, but some things look, see-through, like are you using washy tape or is it just kind of a clear or semi transparent? 

[00:47:46] Ann Ford: Mm-hmm. Some of it’s washy tape. This is, uh, a, um, stencil. Okay. Um, this is a stencil. Some I’ve been using like stamps.

[00:47:58] I use some stamps on things, [00:48:00] 

[00:48:00] diane: um, because you’re still getting that kind of brush technique that you would do at the end. Right. So this, yeah, 

[00:48:08] Ann Ford: this is a stencil. And then these are just little, like, they were on this sheet of, of like stickers I got and I just cut ’em out and, you know, and some of it, this is washy tape.

[00:48:26] This is washy tape. Um, what about that? Fragile, [00:48:30] fragile, 

[00:48:30] diane: fragile. 

[00:48:32] Ann Ford: That is something that was in this, um, well, no, that might be washy tape too. But I also had this, this box of ephemeral somebody gave me that had these strips of like stickers that you put on, like prescription bottles and stuff. Oh yeah.

[00:48:50] Funny, interesting. So this, um, this is, this was some paper that I purchased, um, that this A, [00:49:00] b, C, you know, the type. Um, and then, um, and there was this one. This was the first one. 

[00:49:10] diane: This is a sticker. Okay. So you’re not doing any hand drawing on these yet? 

[00:49:17] Ann Ford: Not yet. I have on, on the other things that I have done in the sketchbook, but not on this.

[00:49:24] Um, 

[00:49:25] diane: which I like that you’ve taken baby steps in doing some of those [00:49:30] things. 

[00:49:31] Ann Ford: Right. So then there’s, where does it go? These, um, that are relatively new. This is the new one I’m working on, so I haven’t cleaned these up at all. So you can see the background is there, but 

[00:49:46] diane: this is, yeah, this is your table over there.

[00:49:48] But this is again, physical collage. 

[00:49:51] Ann Ford: Right. And so you can see like these have a little bit more texture to ’em. They’re a little thicker mm-hmm. Dye cut kind of things. Mm-hmm. And [00:50:00] some 

[00:50:00] diane: look still. So you’re specifically choosing things that can be c or have a transparency in them. Have you thought about using let set in these?

[00:50:11] Ann Ford: Yeah, in fact I just, um, I was talking to the woman we who spoke at, oh, this one needs better picture. I spoke at C CAC and um, I’m gonna order some through Etsy. So, but. So then, then there’s the other. [00:50:30] That’s this one. And it’s not, this is not done yet, but um, since I did those, I’ve done these in the past few days.

[00:50:39] diane: Well, now we gotta see it’s full. We gotta stop the share so we can see it. Hang on. Oh, there you go. Now hold them up. So like, how long would something like this take you? Um, I did, do you finish one? Spread 

[00:50:57] Ann Ford: in one sitting? Usually [00:51:00] this one I started and I had to go to physical therapy and came back and finished it.

[00:51:05] And then this one took maybe an hour or so. Are you like 

[00:51:12] diane: moving it around before you glue it? And what do you Sometimes it glue 

[00:51:17] Ann Ford: and sometimes I just put it there and just say, okay, that’s where it’s gonna be. Okay. 

[00:51:22] diane: So there’s some of this giving up control that we usually do in design that you’re embracing.

[00:51:28] Ann Ford: Right? [00:51:30] And then there was this one that was the bigger size, and I struggled with it because, uh, well this is where the first time I took a theme, so I took some of this paper that I had purchased and decided to use it throughout. And so I laid it down first and then started working. And this one feels like it’s overworked and, but you tried a new process.

[00:51:55] Yeah. And so I, I didn’t know if it was this, that, [00:52:00] the putting it down first or if it was the size of this book, but what I did was I scAnnd these and I’m starting to work on them digitally. So I thought, well, maybe if I can’t get them. Where I want them here. Maybe if I scan ’em digitally and start working on top of them.

[00:52:17] diane: Okay. So do you think you sit down every day to do some collage, either physically or digitally? Um, yes. Or how 

[00:52:28] Ann Ford: often 

[00:52:29] diane: you think [00:52:30] it’s every day? 

[00:52:31] Ann Ford: I try to do it every day. Okay. Um, not always can I get it done. Like sometimes I might only sit down for maybe five or 10 minutes. Um, but I try to do something every day, whether it be physical or digital.

[00:52:49] diane: So, but in the beginning you were only working digitally. Were you doing it every day then? Uh, yeah, I was doing it every day. So you were [00:53:00] trying and like, how, what was the smallest amount of time? I always feel like we gotta know what the smallest amount of, I 

[00:53:05] Ann Ford: don’t know that I could put time on it, but I would just, the minimum would be one.

[00:53:11] But like one minute, 

[00:53:13] diane: no one collage. Okay. But like if somebody’s like, I can’t, right? Because I feel like both of us have said I can’t do that. I can’t. It’s like, okay, well what if you just put three layers on each day? 

[00:53:27] Ann Ford: Maybe half an hour? [00:53:30] If I did quickly an hour, if it was more intense, if things didn’t flow the way I wanted ’em to.

[00:53:36] diane: So my one thing is that I, and you have to know yourself. You have, do have to try different things. But when I, I can draw at night, but I cannot do col, like do the cut paper ’cause I get too excited and then I can’t fall asleep. So I have to make sure that I’m not doing the thing that really gets me in a flow state late because I need to [00:54:00] sleep 

[00:54:00] Ann Ford: well, it relaxes me too.

[00:54:02] Okay. So where, if I were. Probably doing the physical collage, I would be in that state where I wouldn’t be able to stop. But with, with the digital, I can put it away. 

[00:54:17] diane: Well, and so, okay, so you, you recently, when you moved into this house, which wasn’t super recent, but you’ve recently cleaned and organized.

[00:54:26] How does that make a difference and how often are you [00:54:30] organizing your files for that Adobe stock thing? 

[00:54:34] Ann Ford: Uh, not as often as I should, but um, I try to do that. I try to do all of it, at least go through it, at least the digital, once a month. This I kind of,

[00:54:54] you can leave this up on the floor. Yes. 

[00:54:57] diane: It’s still pretty clean there though, Ann, so [00:55:00] Yeah. But I also, lots of little containers that are for. How do you break those up? Like are some blue, are they done by color or are they done by topic? By kind of topic? Um, or size? 

[00:55:13] Ann Ford: That topic and size, like, like for instance, I don’t use these very often, but this one’s all pipe.

[00:55:20] Oh, okay. So if I were to open this, I mean like there’s some of those things I [00:55:30] cut up. 

[00:55:30] diane: Oh yeah. Uh, what are those reinforcers, right? They’re called reinforcers. The round ones. They’re the stickers. Yeah. But the round ones were called reinforcers then, you know, I, yeah, I love those numbers. But you’re specifically buying things that are e biera or older looking?

[00:55:48] Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. Look at those. Amy would like those. 

[00:55:53] Ann Ford: So, and then, you know. Okay. So that’s kind of what’s in here and there’s all [00:56:00] different sizes and stuff like that. So it’s kind of broken up like that. Okay. Some of them broken up based on the transparency. Okay. That would be helpful. Some of them are shiny, transparent and some of them are not.

[00:56:14] So it depends on, I real, I’ve working with this, I realize that the ones that aren’t shiny, um, you can’t, or it interferes if you go back over it with [00:56:30] a, with a stencil, it doesn’t look as well, so you gotta kind of have to plan it. 

[00:56:35] diane: Okay. So how we know how often you’re making them, the goal is never to sell them or even to show them.

[00:56:41] You have put some in a faculty show and some are in the cancer center I think at BCU where they were for a while, which I think is great ’cause it was a healing part for you. Um, I also think so you’ve found ways to share them without. Selling them, but I, um, still would like you to make some that you [00:57:00] could share and sell because I would like to buy some.

[00:57:03] Um, what about, um, ha have you transitioned into that or does that even, like, ugh, it just is too much. I’m just gonna keep making, and I’m not gonna worry about selling or making a book with these or anything like 

[00:57:17] Ann Ford: that. No, I, I’m thinking about that. Like, I’m really exploring that because I enjoy doing it and I don’t intend to stop.

[00:57:25] And so, you know, if I can, if I can do that and you’ve [00:57:30] inspired me to start creating my own ephemera, um, like my background’s like, you know, I’m gonna order, I’ve ordered some paint and some brushes and, you know, so I’m gonna try to make some, uh, just basic textures where I can scan ’em in and 

[00:57:44] diane: use them so well, that’s good.

[00:57:46] And I’m glad, um. I think that one thing I take from this is that it doesn’t always have to have a purpose. And actually you’ve had two years, maybe two and a half years of making that. [00:58:00] Now you’re starting to think about having things to sell or make using the things that you would, you could, but now you’ve had two years of working daily, you know how to make decisions or you’re, you’ve come to grips with the intuitive side and because you’ve made so many, they’re not so precious of this has to be perfect.

[00:58:23] Uh, you know, like I think that, like that one book was the first time you had struggled in a [00:58:30] while. Yeah. And, but I think you did two things. You did a theme and you did a bigger book. So I always am like, okay, well one, one, change one thing at a time. Yeah. Um. I just want this, ’cause this really, to me, this is the hardest thing for me to get across is that just make it, Diane, don’t worry about it.

[00:58:51] Just make it so, make it shifting your mindset because we are designers and we do things and we make money with our art. [00:59:00] How was it easy for you to just start making and not, and to turn that 

[00:59:09] Ann Ford: it Well actually was, and I guess it was just because I found this, the switch kicked on for me where I can do this for me and this is something I enjoy and it’s something that I can escape too.

[00:59:24] Um, and so, and I would escape. I would literally escape. [00:59:30] It would just be like nothing else mattered. 

[00:59:33] diane: Um, okay. You gotta answer one more question. I think you’re gonna pull something up maybe, or maybe hold it up. What has been your favorite collage that you’ve created so far? And can you even answer that?

[00:59:46] Is that like saying, what’s your favorite color today? Or what’s your favorite typeface? 

[00:59:50] Ann Ford: And you put it on my, I sent it to you. I, I don’t even have it up. I’m just like, um, I don’t, it was 

[00:59:57] diane: one, it was one of the ones from the, [01:00:00] um, 

[01:00:00] Ann Ford: yeah, it was one of the ones you put on the, the, the green one. 

[01:00:05] diane: Oh, okay. With the 15 or with 

[01:00:08] Ann Ford: the 

[01:00:09] diane: pink 

[01:00:09] Ann Ford: squash.

[01:00:11] Both of those are good, but there was another one that was a little more hunter. 

[01:00:14] diane: Oh, okay. I have that one. I think. Um, let me share my screen. 

[01:00:18] Ann Ford: Let’s see. And that’s just for now, like when I, when you asked me to pull my favorite, I was like, I don’t, I can’t do this. And I know those, those other ones where you and you guys is this one it, yeah.

[01:00:29] [01:00:30] So I, um, 

[01:00:32] diane: my computer and that one, yours is right there on the bottom. You like that one? I love this one. I just think this is, uh, this looks like the beginning of a movie or something Paul could use for a book cover. Like it is so juicy to me. But one thing I do love about this, I love the texture on top.

[01:00:49] I love that there’s this white space, you know what we always think, but then there’s this real texture here that I can see that this looks like a real piece and I see it here and I [01:01:00] see this tape. I don’t know, I love collage because of the stories, and I love the contrast with this. Everything’s so, I love that I’m, mm, they just, they are story instigators for me and I love hearing stories, so that’s why I think I love collage.

[01:01:19] But I was talking about these two 

[01:01:21] Ann Ford: also. Mm-hmm. Those are your favorites. I know, I know. The one with the pink you really liked. Yeah, I, it was just so, uh, one thing, I love [01:01:30] that, that first one, I, the one that’s so dark. That was the very first one. This, this dark one right here. Yeah. So that’s why I sent you that one.

[01:01:37] ’cause it was the very first one I ever 

[01:01:38] diane: did and it’s really, there’s a lot of, uh, type and texture in there. Again, 

[01:01:45] Ann Ford: the dark place I was in. 

[01:01:47] diane: Yeah. All right, well, so I wanna make sure I share all of the ways that people can, um, get in touch with you. And, um, she’s, uh, all of these will be at the top if you’re [01:02:00] watching on YouTube or you’re listening on wherever you get your podcasts.

[01:02:05] Um, but you can follow her. Uh, her website is chambers design.com. And then on Instagram, she is Ann Ford, A-N-N-F-O-R-D 6 4 6 2. I don’t know what the 6 4, 6 2 means. But you don’t have to tell us that. Maybe that’s your pin for your, uh, computer card. For your, uh, what do you call that, your [01:02:30] debit card. I’m 

[01:02:30] Ann Ford: just 

[01:02:31] diane: kidding.

[01:02:33] Ann Ford: It’s what? It’s not my debit card. Okay, good. 

[01:02:36] diane: Um, so then, um, I looked at, I was like trying to find her on LinkedIn and I just typed in Ann Ford and that’s like some yoga lady. Um, but if you go to LinkedIn, you can go to linkedin.com/in/chambers. Design and Chambers was your maiden name, right? Right. And then you can email Ann at Ann Do [01:03:00] Ford a nnn.Ford@chambersdesign.com.

[01:03:05] And what’s next? I’m not still sharing my screen, right? I don’t think so. Okay. 

[01:03:11] Ann Ford: Um, I’m just gonna continue work and continue 

[01:03:14] diane: to collect. Do you often. Like go to garage sales or how do you get your ephemera? 

[01:03:21] Ann Ford: Sometime? I, I just order it from Temo. Like I just order paper that’s kind of made into collage and then I rip it up.

[01:03:29] [01:03:30] So then, and that’s what I’m using for the physical. I don’t use it for the digital. 

[01:03:33] diane: Then Hoosier type, you got some stuff he was doing 

[01:03:37] Ann Ford: from Hu Hoosier type, and then I got a, um, big box of ephemera from someone local in Petersburg. And um, and sometimes it’s just stuff that I have, like I have collected ephemera from everywhere Right.

[01:03:57] Every travel I’ve been on. Right. So [01:04:00] those I’ll probably wanna scan. Yeah. But I’ve got so much of it I need to do. I need to do something with it. Yeah. 

[01:04:09] diane: Okay. Well, Ann, um, sharing today. I hope that, my hope is that somebody who’s hearing, maybe they have fatty liver disease, or maybe they’ve just been told they had nash, you didn’t go through weight loss surgery.

[01:04:26] You did it all on your own. You had a great [01:04:30] doctor who really fought to make you not feel like you were crazy. Um, and that you gotta keep searching for answers. And there’s always gonna be things that come up that are gonna make it hard. But you are such a fighter, and man, that is your story. Like whatever we’re talking about, you always are a fighter.

[01:04:51] Ann Ford: So women listen to your body and don’t listen to the doctors until, you know, keep pushing, till you find out what’s [01:05:00] going on. Um, before it’s too late, pretty much. 

[01:05:05] diane: And then when you have to sh when you do share something that is, makes you feel uncomfortable or vulnerable, what would, why do you think that helps other, like, um, it’s feels really crappy at first, I think.

[01:05:19] Mm-hmm. But, um, when you do something and you share even it’s hard for you. When you did the first little show, you were like, I don’t even wanna show these collages. [01:05:30] Right, right. It’s like baby steps of talking about something or sharing something. I think, you know, it’s hard to show your sketchbook the first time ’cause you think you’re gonna get 

[01:05:39] Ann Ford: judged, you know?

[01:05:41] Right. And it’s like, I just don’t, one, I didn’t think, I didn’t know why anybody would wanna hear my story. And two, you know, I didn’t think they were all that great either. I mean, I was just like doing it for me. I wasn’t really looking for, um, feedback or, Hmm. You [01:06:00] know, anything like that. So. 

[01:06:02] diane: Well, it’s a great story and I’m really glad you shared it.

[01:06:06] And, um, next week we are back to product design and we are going to finish out the rest of the year with product design. We are not doing one on the day before Thanksgiving. And, but other than that, we have, um, we go through the first week of December and it’s product design, product design, product design.

[01:06:27] These next two are more, [01:06:30] what maybe, I don’t know. I don’t know what typical product design is. Um, these are not physical products. These are people designing things on the computer and they would have that title as product designer. And I’m excited because they’ve busted some things and like, I mean, not busted like, anyway, not like.

[01:06:55] They created a bomb or anything. I mean, like they’ve, they were a traditional [01:07:00] designer and then they just were like started designing these things and then somebody called it product design and then they’re like, well, I was a web designer or something, you know? Um, but you’re really blazing a trail, I think.

[01:07:12] Um, so I hope you guys will join me next week, next Wednesday, normal time, no time changes anymore. We’re done with the time changes. The British people are all back to normal non British stand. Summertime, it’s back to GMT. I don’t [01:07:30] remember what GMT stands for. I always wanna say Greenwich Mountain Time, but I know that is not what it is.

[01:07:37] I don’t know where I came up with this anyway. It’s not what it is. Um, I am tired and I am, uh, hopefully gonna finish grading today. How about you, Ann? What are you gonna do? 

[01:07:52] Ann Ford: Uh, I might go do some 

[01:07:53] diane: collage. Okay, good. I wanna do some art stuff this weekend. I don’t wanna grade anymore. [01:08:00] Um, I hope you guys have a great day and thank you so much.

[01:08:03] Is it Green Witch meantime? Are you I just get pulling my leg there. Amy, are you just making Probably just, I don’t remember what it is. So says it’s okay. It says Google, so then I’m not crazy. I think that’s weird though. A little bit. I don’t know. Whatever green. Which meantime I think, I feel like that’s there pulling our leg.

[01:08:23] ’cause I don’t, I don’t know. Anyway, um, I hope you guys have a great week and I’ll see you next [01:08:30] Wednesday. 

[01:08:31] Bye.