Product Design Defined with Diana Ingles

[00:00:00] diane: Hello everybody. It’s another episode of, creatives Ignite and it is episode 491. We’re so close to episode 500, and I’m super excited about that. this is the last episode of the product design series, and I get to finish with, we’ve talked to people who are doing, making products and selling them.

[00:00:29] We’ve talked to [00:00:30] people who are, that’s all they do. Some people do it on the side, some people are doing it full time, but nobody’s doing it like Dee and John are doing it. So I’m really excited to have Dee. So we, if you’ve been on, you’ve Ha Dee’s been on before. She’s talked about eco-friendly. She’s talked about, different kinds of products that she uses, that she’s been on the forefront of the eco-friendly, [00:01:00] Spectrum, I think, which is amazing. And she’s definitely a trendsetter and a, a, a trailblazer in this one. but she also changed from a, pivoted from doing traditional graphic design for other people, to doing, having products and selling them locally and selling them to online. And then they changed again, continuing to niche even further.

[00:01:28] And we’re gonna hear all about that [00:01:30] today. We’ve also, in this product design series, we’ve talked about pe, talked to people who are doing, digital, customer journeys and, more product design in the way of, you know, what screens and user experience and kind of user interface as well, which, you know, we all kind of do that.

[00:01:54] it’s not just, online that we do that, but I’m really excited to have Dee as our [00:02:00] last interviewee, for the year. And you are closing up this, product design. So Dee, tell us a little bit, you go by Diana, but I always call you Dee, so you’re d to me. you’re gonna tell us a little bit about you and this business and then I’d love for you to kind of take us through where it started and then where it is now.

[00:02:25] And then I have a whole bunch of other questions. Will you tell me a little bit who you are, 

[00:02:29] Diana Ingles: [00:02:30] where you are, what you do? I feel like I’m warmed up ’cause I just came from a local high school of design students who wanted to know more about the creative field. So that was interesting to talk to people who are.

[00:02:43] Several years younger than me, so I am Diana. Some people call me Dee Ingles and I’m representing, wild. We’re routed today on behalf of my son Brennan and my husband John. We are the co-founders. It is a brand we started about five years [00:03:00] ago under a different name. We just basically put it under the studio name and we’ve evolved since then.

[00:03:06] we worked with, Andrew in the UK to do some renaming because we knew that this was like the real deal. The first name was the practice name. And so we are well ratted based off of growing up outside in the woods. They’re basically feral children. And then a route is a, is the road you take to go to a national park.

[00:03:28] Hmm. [00:03:30] So we launched this brand. after a big life change, John had lost his job of 31 years, and so we took a road trip for five weeks. Sounds crazy, but when in life do you get a chance in a career break to do something that you people only dream of? So we did that. it was really interesting to see how each of the parks ran, what they had to offer.

[00:03:57] Got to meet people from all over the spectrum. [00:04:00] It was really cool. But we knew we wanted, when we got back, we were like, we knew we wanted to do something from the national parks. We just didn’t know how. So we took the memories from what we learned, put ’em into some stickers, then some t-shirts. And as we all know, in the creative industry, we just start pouring money into products.

[00:04:17] ’cause it’s 

[00:04:17] diane: fun. It is fun. But did you notice when you were there, did you notice that there were holes in what the national parks were able to offer or, 

[00:04:28] Diana Ingles: yeah, I think the whole, the [00:04:30] big hole for me was. a situation where recyclability was not in play for the parks, for a lot of the parks and single use plastics have become a big issue in that they’re finding microplastics in the water at Grand Canyon.

[00:04:48] they’re starting to have dialogue about how plastic is, you know, choking wildlife, all those gross things you see on the daily and you feel guilty about, and you, you’re like, what do I do? So we figured that would be our niche, [00:05:00] the eco component of it. So, coming back, spending a lot of money on t-shirts and stickers without a strategy, talking to some good folks in Peoria.

[00:05:12] We have a really good ecosystem for entrepreneurs and we talked to the small business, advisory team and we talked to, with the G beta cohort, that’s a free cohort that you can go through if you wanna get investors for your startup. And just had a lot of great people like yourself and, [00:05:30] some other people.

[00:05:32] We started to like go, okay, this is serious. We’re spending a lot of money doing this. Let’s get some strategy in place. So we started to work with people who could help us, like make things more clear. 

[00:05:43] diane: How wrote were you think, were you thinking that you would, going through like a a, it’s not an instigator.

[00:05:53] What’s like a incubator? Incubator, instigator. It’s been a day I had to re, I [00:06:00] started late ’cause my stupid computer had to restart and then all the stupid zoom things had to do. That’s what we’re good at. Yeah. It you just, and then somebody knocks on my door and door and I’m like, I can’t talk right now.

[00:06:14] anyway. And with the incubator, did you think w would you have taken on a investor? Was that something you were really seeking out? 

[00:06:25] Diana Ingles: I would say no. So, I think between John, myself and Brennan, we’ve all [00:06:30] been working. Several jobs for the past 30 years, not Brennan, but John and I, and we saved up a little bit to like give us a cushion, but losing his job was kind of a hit because as we all know, about 60% of the money we make goes to insurance.

[00:06:48] Insurance for being a web developer, insurance for your health, your home, your car, all that is things you take for granted when you’re employed by somebody else. So we had to go out on our own and find insurance and it was really, really [00:07:00] expensive. And so that has been a challenge. So say your question again.

[00:07:04] I, 

[00:07:04] diane: were you expecting doing the incubator? Were you, were you trying to find a investor or were you really seeking out? Because that could be, A lot of us don’t do that part, but this is when you’re having products and you’re selling, or you’re gonna have a store or a storefront, you need a lot of cash to be able to buy those products to be able to.[00:07:30] 

[00:07:30] Stock the store. 

[00:07:32] Diana Ingles: Yeah. So, back to like working a lot and making an nest egg, it gave us like a cushion. Like if something went bad, you know, like you, you plan for the best. you plan for the worst, but hope for the best. Well, the worst, not the worst, but a worst happened and it kind of caught us off guard.

[00:07:51] So that gave us a minute to like figure out what we wanted to do with the rest of our lives. And I’ve been laid off twice. John’s been laid off once and [00:08:00] so we kind of talked to each other and we’re like, just wanna work for ourselves the rest of this gig. So that’s when we started doing the national park stuff.

[00:08:09] So we didn’t wanna take on an investor just because we had told, been told by a mentor that when you take an investor on, it’s like picking up a hitchhiker. And before you know it, that hitchhiker is driving your car away and you’re alongside of the road so that, that can work that way in some situations and others not.

[00:08:27] So I don’t wanna steer people away from taking investment, [00:08:30] but that’s what we were able to take away from it. 

[00:08:34] diane: And you had a, you had some nest egg to be able to invest in this, right? So you spent, how long, kind of paint the picture of you’ve, you’ve created these stickers and these t-shirts, then what, how were you selling them?

[00:08:51] What were you doing? And then why did you decide to go in a different, I mean, ’cause you’re still doing stickers and t-shirts, but. 

[00:08:57] Diana Ingles: Yeah, so, the mentor [00:09:00] that advised us not to take an investor on at this time also advised us to do user study, user interviews, and we have a local market, a farmer’s market that if you sell there, that you have to be from Illinois making products in Illinois.

[00:09:15] So it’s, it’s not like you’re buying junk, you’re buying true grown, made pottery, all that kind of stuff. So we did that for two years. And so every Saturday morning we’d pack up [00:09:30] at like five o’clock in the morning. We’d get down there, we’d set up and we’d sell. We did, we did pretty good, but we got to have a lot of interaction with people about what they liked, what they didn’t like.

[00:09:41] So after about two years of that, I got pretty burnout. You know, when you’re in a tent in a 90 degree day and talking’s not my, as you can tell, talking’s not my strong point. You’re talking great. I prefer design heads down, you know, you know. So [00:10:00] after that we’re like, okay, is this the best use of our time and our money?

[00:10:05] because when you have materials that are sitting out in the sun, they’re also being exposed to weather and sun. And so we had to like really rethink. So we’re like, you know what? I think we’re going to, we’re gonna pivot here and start to do wholesale, because wholesale seems to be a better use of making more money with the least amount of time.

[00:10:24] So that’s when we started going to a trade show. 

[00:10:27] diane: So then John went to the first trade [00:10:30] show on his own. Mm-hmm. And it was, was it, what was the trade show called? public Lands Alliance. Public Lands Alliance. So, like what was the goal and how did you find Public Lands Alliance and how did he convince you?

[00:10:46] ’cause you were like, I don’t think we should go. 

[00:10:48] Diana Ingles: So as we all know, it’s fun to be married to the person you’re in business with and not make any money and come home and not make any money. And so we [00:11:00] of course went to a lot of national parks and John is very much extroverted and he was talking to a ranger and the Ranger’s like, well, you go to PLA if you wanna sell the national parks.

[00:11:11] So this was two years in. And so he came home and he is like, I think we should go to this trade show. And I said, I think you’re crazy ’cause you’re spending money that we, we just don’t have. Are you crazy? And he’s like, I think we should go. I think, I think you should go by yourself then ’cause it’ll be cheaper.

[00:11:25] And so of course he goes down there and he makes all kinds of friends and [00:11:30] he’s like, this is the trade show. And I’m like, well I just, I guess I’m eating Crow right now because you were right. That was the place to meet up with these people who actually buy, it’s the conservancies that have buyers and run the stores for the parks.

[00:11:44] So, and it’s once a year. Once a year 

[00:11:48] diane: and you didn’t know though. You don’t know. ’cause other things have more than once a year thing and you just, you really don’t know if you’re not in wholesaler. Yeah. I think 

[00:11:59] Diana Ingles: there’s a good lesson [00:12:00] there when you’re under stress of not making money. Mm. Your logical brain kind of goes into like survival mode.

[00:12:08] And maybe that’s a lesson the audience, audience can take is to like bring other people into the fold that can see you when you can’t see yourself. Mm. So luckily John’s logical brain prevailed and he’s like, I think this is where we can meet people. And so here we are going to the show every year and meeting more and more people.

[00:12:28] And the people are [00:12:30] hardworking and they really wanna do great things for the park. And so it’s an excellent fit. I wish they met more than once, but once it is, 

[00:12:39] diane: and park rangers are the people who somebody, sometimes it is. Some of this Park Ranger has all these extra hats that they’re, they’re buying stuff or they’re, they’re, they have a lot of hats on that they’re wearing, so mm-hmm.

[00:12:58] It, their [00:13:00] attention is really divided during the year maybe, and it mm-hmm. It may be even at, at this, how many other vendors go to this? 

[00:13:11] Diana Ingles: I think it’s about 50. It grows every year. I mean, it’s, it’s not something that is, a few hundred dollars to go to. It’s several thousand dollars to be in it. And that doesn’t count what you’re bringing or what you’re what the travel you have to get there.

[00:13:26] Right. So I would say, it’s not really the [00:13:30] Rangers so much that are coming to buy the Rangers are, an employee of the federal government. So they can’t, but they do weigh in on interpretive information. So they are part of the equation, but it’s the conservancies that have people that they know what to look for.

[00:13:44] They know what sells in their store. So each, each park has a conservancy. Yeah. It could be called a conservancy or it can be called an association, or it can be a history thing. so every park [00:14:00] has its own, like think about a shark that has one of those little fish that nibble on it. Mm-hmm. Symbiotic relationship.

[00:14:07] It’s like 

[00:14:07] diane: that. Okay. So. at some point you meet this woman who becomes your consultant, and that has been like a game changer because what we’re trying to do is we’re, I mean, I hate that you’ve had to learn hard lessons, but I love that you’re willing to share so that other people don’t have the same hard [00:14:30] lessons that you had to learn.

[00:14:31] They can learn from you. so one is go to the trade show and there are trade shows for other different niches. So if you’re the greeting cards, there’s a whole trade show for you. There’s, like gift, so gift rep or, you know, there’s clothing, there’s March, there’s, and some are multiple times and they’re in different, they’re smaller ones that are in cities near you.

[00:14:56] But this is a really good thing be, but it was really a mindset [00:15:00] of instead of targeting customers, you in retail, you said, Hey, we’re, let’s do wholesale. Mm-hmm. And that was a big shift, I think. So that was a smart shift. Okay. So when did you meet the consultant? And you can tell us her first name at least.

[00:15:19] Diana Ingles: Okay. Laurel. we met her at last year’s trade show. so you go to, you go to the trade show every year and you redesign your booth every year to try to make [00:15:30] it inviting, enjoyable. Of course, you want people to buy, but I’m not really, a pushy salesperson. I’m more of like, Hey, is this a good fit? What can we do?

[00:15:41] What, you know, what kind of emotions are you trying to convey? What kind of plants, animals do you have? Hmm. All those types of things. And so, as a way to give back, we’re members of 1% for the planet. So we have to give 1% of sales, not profits, sales, to either a conservancy or back to 1%. [00:16:00] In, in some way that actually goes back to, better things.

[00:16:06] So I, I thought, you know, I’ll put 1% for the Planet logo in my booth thinking that would be like, Hey, we are putting our money where our mouth’s at. And so, I think, well, we met Laurel at the show and she’s like, Hey, I, she didn’t say this, but I’m sure she’s thinking, Hey, your booth looks like crap.

[00:16:28] I think it can help you. [00:16:30] Is what I’m thinking she was saying in her head. But no, she was very nice. She’s like, Hey, so, I, I think I can like work with you guys and, help you niche down and get some some things rolling. Would you like to work together? And it’s just a really great relationship. She’s very into, seeing us and reflecting back and also.

[00:16:55] putting some spirituality into it and that like, not only are you doing this for [00:17:00] your living, but are you taking time to reflect at like where you’ve come from, where you’re going, what you actually wanna do. ’cause it’s so easy to get your head in the work and just grind and grind and grind and then wake up four years later and say, am I on the path that I was meant to be on?

[00:17:20] You know? Yeah. 

[00:17:22] diane: So she’s reflective, she meets with you often. Mm-hmm. She’s been in the business. I think her family was in, they [00:17:30] did stuff similar. Mm-hmm. I can’t imagine that your booth looked bad ’cause I imagine that the booth looked awesome. ’cause you’re both great designers. Mm-hmm. But I think some things she, maybe you had lots of different products and now she helps you focus in on certain things.

[00:17:49] I was, it’s too cold here today. It was like, I’ll, I have every single, I think I have almost every single T-shirt you have sold. I love and I, I was just gonna [00:18:00] wear this stripe shirt in my favorite yellow sunflower wild routed t-shirt. It was just too cold and I had to wear a sweater. You wouldn’t have been able to see it Anyway.

[00:18:09] Heat’s not good in this building. but what kind of things, product wise did you say, okay, we’re not gonna be doing this, we’re gonna focus in on more of these types of things, like, I guess, okay. Yeah. Then I’ll ask the question. Sorry. Okay. 

[00:18:29] Diana Ingles: So [00:18:30] I feel like as a creative person, it’s really hard to wrangle your creative brain in and stay in a couple lanes and perfect them so.

[00:18:39] We were doing, mirum tags, which is the plant-based leather. So on top of that, we were doing apparel and stickers and bandanas and, sketchbooks, you know, all the things, all of us created. Just loved to buy ourselves. And she was really good at like, getting [00:19:00] us to reflect and say, Hey, what have you perfected?

[00:19:03] And we’re like, well, I think, I feel like we’ve been heads down trying to perfect everything. And she’s like, Hey, let’s just, let’s just offer the things you’re really good at right now. Because as you know, when you buy materials or you have somebody create things for you, even though you would do something a certain way and you would put it out a certain way, not everybody has the same work ethic.

[00:19:28] Ethic. So it’s [00:19:30] taken years to get in connection with people who will produce a product that we don’t have the equipment for. In the way that we know our customers want. So that’s, that’s been a challenge. 

[00:19:44] diane: Yeah, that’s, do you think that you’ve, in doing that, do you think you’ve stuck with the same vendor or when would you stick with the same vendor and just keep tweaking?

[00:19:56] Or when would you be like, no, we’re going to a different vendor? Like what, [00:20:00] what kind of things, quality wise? ’cause sometimes you can be like, oh, well I know you didn’t do this exactly, but this is how I want it. I didn’t tell you. I assumed. So if, you know, when, when is the point where you’re like, there is no turning back, you made everything, you know, a different color than it was supposed to be or something.

[00:20:21] Diana Ingles: I think we’ve been very fortunate, growing up in this area. A lot of the people we work with are people we’ve actually worked with or [00:20:30] we know, that they do what they say they’re gonna do. Like our laser etcher. Amazing person does phenomenal work, is very clear conversation, communication. we are onto a new silk screener because our other silk screener stopped doing silk screening.

[00:20:47] He’s only doing direct to garment. Mm-hmm. And so we had to scramble and find somebody who can print algae ink, as you know, was very niche market. Mm-hmm. so we just found that person. And I think the only thing that’s [00:21:00] been a super challenge would be like, a silk screener we used way back in the beginning.

[00:21:07] They were really lovely people, but they weren’t like really willing to try LG Inc. And so that was challenging to get somebody to try a new material because it’s a water-based product. Takes a little bit more hands-on. That’s what we really needed to do. So, you know, you always part ways in the best of ways, but if somebody isn’t a good fit, you kind of [00:21:30] have to cut it soon.

[00:21:31] So I think the biggest challenge for a vendor would be stickers. And so now everybody creates stickers the same. 

[00:21:39] diane: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:39] Diana Ingles: And so we were using a couple different vendors and we test them on our cars and they were fading and maybe not holding up the best. And then we went to Creative South one year and Sticker app was giving away, coupons, golden tickets, and we [00:22:00] tried them out and just, they’re just phenomenal at getting things to us when we need them.

[00:22:07] holidays can be a bit of a challenge because, you know, people are in different holidays than we are, but it’s been a really great experience. So I think we’ve been really fortunate now that I, communicate with you what that’s like, but. As we grow, I think it’ll be more challenging to bring on new products and keep them at the margins that we need to make a [00:22:30] profit.

[00:22:30] But I think so far so good. Minus the stickers have been challenging until now. Okay. So 

[00:22:36] diane: how would you determine what products you make? So you and John are both illustrating and Brendan illustrating things like how do you decide, oh, let’s put that flower on this T-shirt, or let’s put that flower on this, or how?

[00:22:54] Because I think that if you’re, if you’re running this as a business [00:23:00] and not as a side hustle, this is like, I need people to buy this. I need, this needs to be attractive too. So is there a formula that you’ve figured out on. On actually what your, which drawings get into it? Are you still drawing as much or are you like, but, or are you being very specific?

[00:23:26] I know John’s being speci specific on, ’cause he has so [00:23:30] many drawings he has to make four January. But before I think you would draw things and then you were like, this is neat, let’s put the sun. Or maybe not. Maybe it was more strategic. 

[00:23:44] Diana Ingles: So what I would say to that is when you go to the trade show and you meet people, I think people look at your booth and they’re like, yes, they can do what I need them to do.

[00:23:53] Mm. But I think first and foremost is like, is it a good connection? Do they feel like they can trust you? 

[00:23:59] diane: Hmm. Do [00:24:00] 

[00:24:00] Diana Ingles: they feel like you’ll, carry them well so that they’re successful in their store? So it’s relationships will never stop being one of the most important thing when you have a business. 

[00:24:12] diane: Hmm.

[00:24:12] Diana Ingles: Second, I think, as you know, we’re an eco-friendly brand or an eco-conscious brand. I try to be conscious of what I’m doing. Not everything we make stickers is eco-friendly. however, we do try to be transparent [00:24:30] and one of the eco components of what we do is when people ask us to create like a coloring book, we don’t just create it and hope they buy it.

[00:24:41] We create it based on what their needs are and what their specific plants and animals are. So when, let’s say somebody goes to creators of the moon and they pick up a copy of the coloring book we did, they will feel like once they’ve left the park and they’re flipping through that book that they’re seeing, the places they actually walked through and [00:25:00] touched and experienced are still in that book.

[00:25:03] It’s not a one size fits all. So most of the things we do are custom. 

[00:25:07] diane: And 

[00:25:08] Diana Ingles: we’re currently building a library. As you know, from talking to John, he’s trying to illustrate something like 5 million animals. It feels like that, while we’re trying to open up a retail shop, doing all the, like the build out and the trim and all that kinda stuff.

[00:25:28] so we’re basically building a 

[00:25:29] diane: [00:25:30] library. Okay. So that’s been a big change on maybe how you, the strategy wise for, maybe this is just what sets you apart from other people. They would just have things and you actually can have these, you actually take your own photos. You go out to the park, and then you create these custom, coloring books.

[00:25:58] You create, [00:26:00] stickers you create, Notepads. There’s all kinds of things that you’re able to create, and it does look like that, that park, when you’re thinking about creating a library, which it does feel like 5 million, I think, but you have these things. You also have come into another kind of epiphany, and maybe this is where Laurel helped [00:26:30] Laurel.

[00:26:30] Mm-hmm. Okay. where she helped was the name dropper. Can you explain kind of, because it is custom. I mean, it is, y’all are doing the, it’s your style and nobody’s gonna replicate your style, but it’s also very specific to different to that park. So if you’re creating a library, how would you use this library to create custom things?

[00:26:55] Right. But I think that’s where you’ve been. Brilliant. You wanna [00:27:00] tell ’em? so, or do you wanna keep 

[00:27:01] Diana Ingles: that in? let’s see if I, let’s see if I understand and reflect what you’re saying. So basically building that library has plants and animals and specific landscapes that we’ve done for specific parks in respect to their landscape.

[00:27:16] You know, one might have a volcano, one might have an ocean, some might have both. So as we draw something, it goes into the library and it’s done in black and white for the coloring books and color for [00:27:30] stickers, prints, things like that that we’re, we’re doing. So when you think about a black bear is a black bear, no matter pretty much where you are.

[00:27:38] And a brown bear is a brown bear, no. No matter what, pretty much where you are. I mean, I know they have different names for them. So I think we’re building like general things and then just banking all of those animals, all of those plants, you know, salmon are pretty popular. And then every time we create a custom project for a client, we bank all those things and we keep ’em on separate [00:28:00] layers.

[00:28:01] diane: Okay, so go ahead. So when you’re doing, like, one thing that has happened, I think after this last show, I think you had it already, and there are these awesome, I don’t know if you have any, I didn’t bring mine, but there are the, the stickers and then they have, it’s like a manatee and in Florida there are multiple, hey doc, there are multiple, national parks I’m pretty sure in or state parks even, but there are [00:28:30] multiple, so you could use the same manatee drawing, but have it say.

[00:28:35] I don’t even, I shouldn’t have used Florida, but anyway. No, that’s okay. Like 

[00:28:38] Diana Ingles: Biscayne or Right. Or 

[00:28:42] diane: Everglades. Right. And Everglade. Right. And then it’s the same thing. But you could then I can go, I can be the conservator person and I can say, well I like this manatee and I like this alligator. I want these with my name on there.

[00:28:59] Is [00:29:00] that possible? ’cause then it’s only all you have to do is change the name, but it still is the manatee and it’s still, so it’s like because you have this library, now you can create multiple things. Even if you were going doing something in the Everglades, you would have to create some custom landscapes.

[00:29:17] ’cause there’s not a volcano and there’s, you know, not a mountain. Right, right. but there would be other things that you would be able to now create more bank. And some things may be [00:29:30] just Everglades, like the Redwoods, you know, in California that made you just be. At, Yosemite, you know, like, I, I maybe not, but whatever, but like, you’re taking some things and you know that some of these illustrations are only gonna be at this one thing, but possibly, you are creating other things that aren’t going to just be at, at one location.

[00:29:54] And then we, if I was at a different conservator [00:30:00] lace thing, I could put different names in there. And I think this was, instead of creating every, everything is custom, but instead of creating, a different one with different type, it’s now you have a space for the type. Mm-hmm. Right. 

[00:30:15] Diana Ingles: So that brings up a good point We offer where you can put your name into a specific lockup of an animal in a background or a sticker.

[00:30:25] Or you can have something completely custom. And I, I know that like when you’re [00:30:30] a park buyer, you do wear many hats. Like you were talking about a ranger, but flip that to a park buyer. Park buyer. That’s what I meant. Park buyer. Yeah. So some of these people are just, they’re managing teaching children.

[00:30:42] They’re, working with indigenous groups to bring awareness to the lands that they’re on. They’re running the store, they’re buying. So my heart goes out to them. So I think the name drop stickers will be an easy way for them to say, I want that animal with my name in it. [00:31:00] So they can actually, bring something into their store, try us out, and then possibly go to something more custom as people become more aware of wild routed.

[00:31:10] diane: And on the back of those stickers, there’s a little paragraph about the manatee or about the whatever, which I love. And it’s full color printing on the back. Mm-hmm. And you have the 1% for the planet, and the part could put their logo on the back as well. Yep. So, which I [00:31:30] think is information. Right? Right.

[00:31:31] So not just the, the name of it on the front, it’s also just that other piece of information that’s on the back that now people aren’t gonna throw that thing away because it has information on it. They don’t wanna throw it away because, which I think is again, a great way to, it’s just using all the sides of this.

[00:31:54] But document, I guess. Right. And it 

[00:31:57] Diana Ingles: also creates more value for parents who have multiple [00:32:00] children. We’ve done a lot of interviews on, what a typical parent coming into the store might be able to purchase based on how many kids they have and their budget. And so our, sticker sheets, which are five inches by five inches also have a coloring page on the back, so that’s not being wasted.

[00:32:19] And the, the child not only has multiple stickers to share, but they all also have an, like an activity. 

[00:32:25] diane: Yeah, I love that. Okay, so, [00:32:30] so there’s one trade show that is for the parks, is, I can’t remember what it’s called, PLY or P-Y-P-L-A. 

[00:32:40] Diana Ingles: There’s also outdoor retailer. But, that can be when you’re a little bit further along because that’s where your Patagonia is and Marmon.

[00:32:49] Mm-hmm. And, people who sell, niche, RVs would hang out. But we have been to that show in Denver just to audit it, 

[00:32:59] diane: just kind of to [00:33:00] walk the floor to see mm-hmm if this is a good fit. Maybe not this year, but maybe in a few years. Yeah. It’s something to work towards maybe. Yeah. Yeah. so I think that that’s good to know.

[00:33:09] Maybe go walk it first and and there might be more than one. see when they are so that you, you can know how to budget time and space ’cause you have to rent certain amount of physical space. I know [00:33:30] that some trade shows that I’ve, work designed stuff for, they usually have like tables, to like have somebody come and stand so you can write out orders or things.

[00:33:42] Sometimes they have products and you have stuff and it sort of looks like you’re in a retail space so that people can kind of go around. Mm-hmm. and if you’re going, if you’re flying from Peoria to Seattle or San Francisco, I think it was in San Francisco last year, right? Yeah. [00:34:00] it’s, it can be expensive even if you have to drive.

[00:34:05] It’s expensive or if you have to fly with all that stuff. Is there any kind of tips that you’ve figured out with doing the, the trade show and, I mean, if you have 50 people or if you’re a huge company, okay, no problem. But this isn’t a huge, this is you trying, how, how have you figured out how to make it work with either driving and it fitting in your [00:34:30] vehicle or flying.

[00:34:33] Diana Ingles: So when you drive, obviously a lot more easy because we have a truck, truck has a wrap on it. So it’s basically a mobile billboard. so easy with a truck. We have tubs, we put it in the back. We have a liner that goes over the back. Of course you have to be strategic with, what you can carry, but usually if we take what we’re doing via an airplane and put it in the truck, it’s a no brainer.

[00:34:55] So picture the Ingles family in an airport. [00:35:00] we have calculated down to the last ounce what each suitcase can carry and John makes a game out of this and he, I just step back and just watch him and Brennan work. But, so we have a grouping of orange suitcases and black suitcases and we, we’ve reverse engineered what, what’s bulky and what we can take out of our display.

[00:35:23] So you do a lot of poles that pull up with a thing that goes across and then all of our backdrops roll up ’cause they’re vinyl. [00:35:30] And we have a local service bureau that’s been here in Peoria since the seventies. So I just go over there and say, here’s what I want. And they make it. So we’ve got it to the point where we’re down to the last ounce, we have the bags marked so we know what we can take on the carryon.

[00:35:44] We know what we can, take on personally, and we know what we can check and everything’s down to the last measurement. But sometimes when we’re at the airport and they weigh it, or maybe our scale wasn’t as great as their scale, so then [00:36:00] we have to go over to the side, unpack all of our packages, and like John strategically picks things out and puts them in the other bag so that we don’t have to pay anymore for anything else.

[00:36:10] So it is a lot of work. It’s kind of fun. Sometimes, not so much, but that’s life making memories, whether they’re like. Challenging or not so challenging. I’m like, we’re doing this. So then we get on the plane and we have everything we need. We’ve calculated if we lose something underneath, [00:36:30] we only put the specific things that we really, really need in our carry-on bags.

[00:36:34] Hmm. So this is where John’s industrial design capabilities really play. Like John will go to Disney and to the Tinker toy section and like we were just at the Lego store and they have a box that’s about that big and he packed in so many Legos. I’m like, dude, he’s like, there’s still space. So, so I go up and I weigh the box and they’re like, oh, it’s, it’s, it’s, you pay for the [00:37:00] box, not for the weight.

[00:37:01] And I’m like, you lose. ’cause he packed it in there. So he’s really good at that. So I think you take your, your human skills and you factor in those to like what you’re doing. So it’s, it’s like everything you’ve been through your whole life. Culmin culminates into this situation where you’re like, okay, our bag tore open.

[00:37:23] How do we fix that? Well, you know, duct tape or a no, so, or something like that. 

[00:37:28] diane: So what if you, [00:37:30] because I feel like it’s continued to niche and niche, even though it’s been eco-friendly and eco-conscious throughout the whole time. It’s also, it’s, it’s gotten more about the style of illustration. It’s also, very clear, more about, the national parks, even though you were always like my sunflower shirt, which I love.

[00:37:58] you know, it maybe isn’t [00:38:00] National Park, but it’s still outside being outside. Mm-hmm. Right. how has, how has choosing a niche been helpful 

[00:38:11] Diana Ingles: to you? I think some days doing this makes you crazy because there’s a hundred things to think about and, and you’re trying to make a living doing it. So I would say all the things we started off doing, like the campfire shirt, which [00:38:30] I know docs girls each have, a shirt.

[00:38:34] Mm-hmm. And he sent me pictures, so thanks for that doc. I really enjoy seeing the kids out in nature with those on the sunflower shirt, the robot shirts. I think all of that will dwindle away. 

[00:38:45] diane: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:46] Diana Ingles: So that we can really focus on the national parks, and really focus on public lands because the more we sell, the more we can give back.

[00:38:57] diane: So I love my crater craters the moon, [00:39:00] shirt too. That one’s awesome. Okay, so, tell us about. you’ve talked a little bit, but the sustainable, it’s not just, algae ink, which is huge and big. Again, something that really sets you apart is even just that, but it’s also the mirum. It’s also what you package your stuff with.

[00:39:24] the, can you talk a little bit about eco and clothes or just how you’ve been able [00:39:30] to find and things like mirum and other, other things that are really focused in, because that’s another part of your niche. I think 

[00:39:42] Diana Ingles: so. Think about when you’re in school as a creative person, and if you’re like me and you found school to be boring because you’re very curious and you didn’t like to sit still and you wanted to like go take on the world.

[00:39:56] I think that’s. Like going through school like that made [00:40:00] me realize that maybe I wasn’t a good fit for school, but I was a really good fit for this because once somebody gives me a challenge, I tend to rise to meet it and find as much information as I can. So I would say anytime I can do something more eco subconsciously, I’m going to search out what that is.

[00:40:20] And I would say, a big thank you to people like Eco and Close. Alani. Doshi bought the company with her husband and they have put the [00:40:30] work in to make things easier for us. They’re working with Sway, which is a seaweed film. So I’m testing the, the seaweed bags to replace plastic bags for the prints we might be doing, or sticker packs, things like that.

[00:40:44] They also have a craft box that has a seaweed panel in the window that I’m testing, also, algae ink. Shout out to Scott Fulbright. Started out in Colorado. Scott and his team have busted their [00:41:00] butts to make algae in a reality. And now Patagonia and Marmite, all kinds of people are adopting it because if you can replace black, that’s made with, with oil, like it’s just a wind you’re using, you’re using agricultural waste, basically.

[00:41:17] Algae just comes off of a pond. Of course, they grow it a lot of the times to make enough of it, but mm-hmm. And then, with also with the eco and close, they’re like doing the research, they’re [00:41:30] doing the testing and they just make it available to retailers. So if anybody here sells a product and you’re just looking for more information, just go to eco and close.

[00:41:38] They have videos, YouTube channel, all that kinda stuff. So we try to package and send our things out with as much. Eco things as possible. Then we slip a little card in there and says, Hey. Mm-hmm. She didn’t notice this is, this is, this is really packaged carefully to make sure we’re not adding to the pile of waste.

[00:41:58] We’re actually doing something that [00:42:00] is better for the planet and hopefully that that’s a win. And then Mirum, Miriam’s kind of struggling right now because, they just lost a, a big investor. I think they, that’s the plant-based leather. 

[00:42:15] diane: Mm-hmm. That’s 

[00:42:15] Diana Ingles: what we make our key fobs and our key straps out of.

[00:42:18] So we’ll see what happens with them. There are other materials like fruit, leather, apple leather, those types of things. But MIM was truly all plant-based and so we’re hope, we’re excited to see them [00:42:30] possibly get another investor and continue on their journey, but we’ll see about that. So with, 

[00:42:36] diane: with MIM in particular, so you see what it can do then?

[00:42:42] And this is where I think true product design kind of comes in is do you ever see it and are like, Hey, could you try this? Could we do it in this shape? So we have a coffee sleeve. I know you’ve done a coffee sleeve. do you have, when you see something like [00:43:00] that, that’s maybe they just have it as a patch or something or whatever, then do you have other ideas of what other things they could do?

[00:43:10] And are you telling them that or are you just saying, Hey, I’m gonna get you to make this for me. 

[00:43:17] Diana Ingles: I think that’s where having 1% for the planet logo on our booth space kind of sets us apart a little bit. 

[00:43:24] diane: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:24] Diana Ingles: Because those people that come to us because of that logo have already done research, are already following the [00:43:30] Patagonia way.

[00:43:31] And so they are looking for us to have those, those new materials, those things that have already been vetted and tested. So that type of relationship is very easy to have. But there are relationships with maybe other parks that they don’t have the budget to have somebody that’s in, like a recycling situation.

[00:43:52] Mm-hmm. Or sometimes some materials and methods, situations. So you have to teach them. And as we [00:44:00] know, there’s the early adopter, there’s the middle adopter, there’s a late adopter. And so sometimes it’s a little bit more time consuming to talk to a late adopter or somebody who doesn’t even believe that to be true.

[00:44:13] I know recycling has become very political. Which is scary, but I, I just hope, like for the future of our planet, we just keep trying to, be informed and do what’s right. Yeah. 

[00:44:27] diane: Okay. So a lot of times when we start our own [00:44:30] business, we obviously want it to be financially successful. We’re not starting it to lose money.

[00:44:36] but we also are starting our own business. And you said this earlier, to do what we love for the rest of our lives. So how much time, ’cause it seems like a lot of this is, I mean, it seems fun still, even the packing thing even seems fun. but it seems like, you know, some people I think are like, oh, I’m gonna work for myself and make my own art.

[00:44:58] And that’s what a lot of, you [00:45:00] know. But it, it’s not that much making art, like it’s, you gotta market and you gotta do all these other things. If you’re. Having products to sell. So how much time per month do you and John create new art? And I know you really have a process where y’all are working. He does one part, and then you do the color.

[00:45:20] And so 

[00:45:21] Diana Ingles: I, I would break that down. At the very granular level, there’s a difference between art and design. Art solves a problem. All art is emotional and [00:45:30] design solves a problem. And then there’s a gray area in between, so you kind of have to know your lane. 

[00:45:35] diane: Mm-hmm. And 

[00:45:36] Diana Ingles: so I would say our lane is like kind of art, but mostly design because we’re trying to create products that are good for the planet and not bad for the planet.

[00:45:45] And the problem we’re solving is not adding plastic to the equation, but actually replacing it. So our, our procedure or standard, Operating procedure, if we wanna be like technical [00:46:00] is, John does the research and makes that, makes sure that the reference he’s using is our reference or from a royalty free mm-hmm.

[00:46:07] Site that offers animals and plants, things like that. We do our very due diligence not to infringe on anybody’s photography copyright. So he does the research, he does the illustrations and sketches them out. I beat him down from making them too complicated because then I have to draw all the lines that he makes.

[00:46:25] So we’ve come to a happy medium, of having like a [00:46:30] very balanced page. I think John has a hard time knowing when to stop, which is, is is good and bad as we all have those little quirks. And so then after he does the illustration, he scans it and, we have, iPhoto set up that he puts it into a bank and lets me know that it’s ready.

[00:46:49] I open fresco, I add it as a base layer, and then I already have my pin set already set to the line weights that I want. I know the model I’m gonna draw it into, and I do all the [00:47:00] black and white. And then once the black and white is done properly and we don’t see any weird shapes, you know, you gotta check for like, things that would be like, people like that looks like a Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:47:12] Insert your comment there. Right? And so we double check for that. We also show it to, our kids and our kids, like double check our brains. And then once that’s okay, I move into color. I tend to be very, I’m, [00:47:30] I don’t really strain, I don’t really reign myself in on color. I try to make it magical and delightful and use a lot of warms and cools to create balance and delight people.

[00:47:41] So like when you see a mountain, it might be pink. 

[00:47:45] diane: Or you, 

[00:47:46] Diana Ingles: you see an animal that might have a tucked of like, purple eye or something like that to create that Disney-esque magic into illustrations. So from time to time, I’ll get it [00:48:00] wrong and one of my kids will be like, eh, I think you, like, you don’t have the right color combination, and they’ll help me.

[00:48:06] So it’s really nice to get that outside influence. 

[00:48:08] diane: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:09] Diana Ingles: Because again, you can get, get yourself heads down in your iPad and not come up for days and not even see, not step back and look at what you’re doing. 

[00:48:18] diane: So in the beginning you were making lots of different, pieces, lots of different illustrations, and then you were choosing to put some things in on stickers or some things on t-shirts.

[00:48:28] And now it sounds like it’s [00:48:30] much more strategic and, if a park is interested, you’re doing something that it would be interested to, you’re not gonna go do that custom until you have a. Contract probably. Right. So you 

[00:48:42] Diana Ingles: go back to that 

[00:48:42] diane: strategy 

[00:48:43] Diana Ingles: of who are 

[00:48:43] diane: you trying to entice 

[00:48:45] Diana Ingles: mm-hmm. With 

[00:48:45] diane: what you’re doing.

[00:48:46] So when do you add a new type of product? So you had stickers, you had t-shirts, and then, and the key chains and fobs, and then you started doing coloring books. [00:49:00] is that kind of a good range? Now, when do, is this once a year, once every five years, you reassess this like I. I would say every year. Okay.

[00:49:11] Diana Ingles: You re you reassess after sales that you have. You’re like, what were people excited about? What? Sales in the cells, in the parks. Like we visit a lot of stores and we’re like, what kind of merchandise are they carrying? Here’s something we didn’t think of. And we try to put our own spin on it. But I will say it’s usually a clash between John and myself when he is like, [00:49:30] do you really wanna add another skew?

[00:49:32] Do you know how much work that is on the backend? And I’m like, no. ’cause I’m not doing it. I’m just creating it. So we have a delicate dance there where we’re like, okay, could we be profitable doing it? Hmm. And, and, and is, is the. Is the, what do they say? The juice worth, the squeeze. That’s right. You know, so it, again, you get that, you have to reign that creative person in and it’s so freaking exciting to create something [00:50:00] and put something out there and see it in a store and you get so wrapped up with your endorphins.

[00:50:06] You have to allow yourself to have that excitement, but then also come back to the spreadsheet and say, what’s reality? What can I do? 

[00:50:14] diane: So working this way where you’re going to a trade show, you have some prototypes, do you have, I. I would assume that you don’t have to have as many on hand. You could actually place the order if they’re not expecting to get [00:50:30] them that afternoon.

[00:50:31] Mm-hmm. so is that where you can save a little bit in you creating some prototypes for them to see, and then once the order comes in, then you can, you don’t have to have as much on stock. Is that correct? 

[00:50:46] Diana Ingles: Yeah. So one thing our accountant taught us the very first year we started this, is its cost of goods sold.

[00:50:54] Not cost of goods purchased. So we had thousands of dollars of inventory [00:51:00] that we couldn’t write off. And we’ll, we’re still carrying a lot of that because we stopped doing the markets. And so, having a good accountant tell you like the ins and outs of things keeps you from making big mistakes. But I think that’s where our excitement got away from us and we’re like, this is so exciting to create t-shirts and sell them and all that kind of stuff.

[00:51:19] And they’re like, before you know it, you have like 12 bins in the basement that you’re trying to fight moths. And so bamboo sachets in there and [00:51:30] just babying everything and making sure everything smells great. Brandy commented once when she got one of our shirts. She’s like, these smell so good. I’m like, ’cause the bamboo ache, it keeps all the smells away.

[00:51:41] So there’s so much behind the scenes. 

[00:51:43] diane: Yeah. So it’s stuff that we don’t think about. It’s all that extra stuff. But one other thing. So after a show you come back, is that when you evaluate or reevaluate maybe and say, are what, what were people [00:52:00] excited about? What sold? Well, or is it at a different time? So it’s usually in February or March, right?

[00:52:05] March, 

[00:52:06] Diana Ingles: yeah. This year. It’s gonna be in February, but it’s usually in March. 

[00:52:09] diane: So is it, does it happen right after you do that or does it happen in 

[00:52:15] Diana Ingles: December? Like, I would say we’re kind of an established brand, but we’re not where we want to be yet. And I think once we are there and we are making a lot of consistent sales, I think we will do that.

[00:52:29] But right now [00:52:30] we’re constantly evaluating, I would say maybe four or five times a year. We’re like just looking, okay, is this, you know, has the cost gone up? Right? Is can we do this ourselves? Do we have time to do it ourselves? Do we, are we gonna do it right? So, yeah. 

[00:52:46] diane: Okay, so I wanna get through some of these.

[00:52:48] ’cause some of these were like some things that me and you talked about. So what has been the favorite, your favorite product that you’ve created so far? Yours, not John’s, [00:53:00] just yours. 

[00:53:03] Diana Ingles: I would say the key fob because it’s my life easier ’cause it clips on my belt and so it has all my stuff on it and I can unclip it and open the door.

[00:53:12] So as a busy, I mean, I know my kids are grown, but I’m still very involved in their lives and I, I have nieces and nephews I hang out with. So I think anything that makes my life easier is great. And it’s ego. It’s ego, 

[00:53:26] diane: yeah. Okay. So, we talked about [00:53:30] mindset and in regards to the way you were raised. So, I don’t know if you can kind of give a synopsis about, you know, you, you were.

[00:53:40] we finished a mason jar. I mean, this is a ex, like this is my ti. I don’t even, I, I got this for my husband John, but I love these because I can put my watercolor water in there and I reuse these all the time. But we, so we have a lot of these at home. [00:54:00] so that’s part of the mindset of don’t throw anything away.

[00:54:04] We can use these things. but it’s also, maybe some of the ways that you were raised, have, have worked against being an entrepreneur. what do you think have you had to fight so that you could be more successful? 

[00:54:24] Diana Ingles: I wish I could have gone to a design high school. I think that would’ve been a different [00:54:30] experience for me.

[00:54:31] So John grew up a little bit differently, but we both basically grew up in the woods. Like your parents are like, Hey, we’ll see it dark kind of thing. Right. My parents, like we grew up on a homestead next door to our, my grandma and grandpa and my, all my aunts and uncles and my great-grandmother. And so we grew all of our own food and we thought that was like pretty cool.

[00:54:52] And it was, but there was never, like, there’s never like investing in things. It was always like, only spend what you [00:55:00] make and when you’re gonna go into business, you have to really fork out some dollars and you have to fork it out for years before you see it come back. But if you read the book, rich Dad, poor Dad mm-hmm.

[00:55:13] Which I highly recommend to anybody. It’s a mindset shift. You’re not gonna be a millionaire if, if all you do is one thing. So if you really wanna make a big dent, like I wanna make a big dent because I wanna give back [00:55:30] so much. And so to do that, having your own business is the way to do that. 

[00:55:36] diane: Mm. 

[00:55:36] Diana Ingles: Because you have the control and you, you can control what you make and how you make it and what you do with it.

[00:55:43] diane: One thing, mindset wise, when you and I were talking, it’s also this, it’s not an immediate, it’s not like, oh, at, you know, this month or next month, it’s sometimes it’s a long game, like this year, this five years. [00:56:00] and it can be, discouraging and, depressing. So how do you avoid that valley of despair?

[00:56:10] What do you do? Because being an entrepreneur is a long game, especially in this, in this type of product. 

[00:56:19] Diana Ingles: I try to focus on what’s going right instead of everything going wrong. I highly believe in therapy because the therapist can help you reach your goals and reflect things [00:56:30] back to you that maybe feel really awful, but maybe aren’t quite that awful.

[00:56:34] So therapy’s a big win. I would say having a friend like you has been a game changer. Get a cry. having a community of people that I’ve met through, you know, creative South and just being in your group and things like that has been pretty cool. And then we have a pretty good ecosystem in Peoria that like, if you need to [00:57:00] talk something out, there’s somebody that can say, Hey, I’ve been through that.

[00:57:03] here’s how I worked around it. And so I would say community is, community and therapy are the 

[00:57:09] diane: best. I think that’s great. I totally have seen you live that out. As you’ve asked for help, you’ve gotten, you’ve talked through decisions, but you have a community locally and online. Internationally. You have a community that you can pour into, but you can also, you also [00:57:30] ask, and I think you’re a great example of that and I’m glad to be in your community.

[00:57:38] Yeah. And you in mine. Thanks. what’s, what do you think is the one, one thing that’s big been the biggest game changer in this venture? In wild rounded? 

[00:57:50] Diana Ingles: Mm-hmm. I would say every time we’re out on an adventure, I could do have to stop and say, [00:58:00] how many adventures can one family take that you have to really stop and be grateful?

[00:58:06] diane: Hmm. Because when you 

[00:58:06] Diana Ingles: go out on those trips. You are not just experiencing nature, but you’re trying to do photograph, you’re trying to research animals and plants, and then you’re trying to post on social media to give people ideas on places that they can go, and try to put something positive out on social media.

[00:58:24] So there’s a lot in the work. So there’s so many things going, you know, what you’re spending on it. [00:58:30] You have to really stop and be mindful that you get to spend a lot of time with your family in cool places. Mm-hmm. And try not to get killed by a bear. Yeah. Don’t do that. Yeah. 

[00:58:41] diane: That’s why I was a worry. So I, I skipped over this one.

[00:58:45] So what have, what have been a few things that you’ve learned that you wish you knew at the beginning that maybe if you had known them, that you wouldn’t have had such an expensive lesson? 

[00:58:56] Diana Ingles: I think when it comes to building something, it’s [00:59:00] interesting how your own bias comes into play. Like you don’t know what you don’t know.

[00:59:04] Mm-hmm. So if you can work with somebody who’s in the space, I think you get to remove that curtain or that bias of like, well, I’m gonna do this and this is how I’m gonna do it. you get to remove that and say, please teach me. 

[00:59:23] diane: That’s huge. It’s also that you don’t have to have everything figured out.

[00:59:28] You have some [00:59:30] things, but you’re, you’re entering a new space. You don’t have to have such expensive lessons. You can just ask, some people, and maybe it’s finding people that you can trust. I think that that is hard for some people, to like find a consultant that you. Can share with that isn’t gonna take advantage.

[00:59:55] That’s maybe a whole nother show, but, alright. Tell me what’s next. [01:00:00] 

[01:00:00] Diana Ingles: What’s next? Well, wild Routed will be on a wall in Grand Teton National Park Store, which is like, it’s like almost so cool. It doesn’t feel real. And I know that sounds weird, but it hasn’t quite sunk in yet. I think it’s because we’re working on the designs and we haven’t delivered it yet.

[01:00:22] But this is all so new. It’s hard to understand what you’re experiencing. Mm-hmm. ’cause everything’s so new. But this is 

[01:00:29] diane: [01:00:30] huge. Like, I remember when you told me, they were like, they want us to do like, you know, not just like a little in display, a end cap or something at the register. They’re like, we want you to do the whole wall.

[01:00:46] Diana Ingles: I was like, that’s big. Am I on drugs or what’s happening? So it isn’t quite set in yet. And then another big thing is we got a, a small grant. We’re building out a retail space in the building that our coworking space is [01:01:00] in. Mm-hmm. So John and Brenner are working really hard to get that open maybe next week or the week after.

[01:01:05] And then our website is, under, an architect working on it right now. Our daughter’s best friend is a web architect, so she’s, she’s helping us with getting things to where they need to be professionally and visually. And then John’s gonna build it out. So a lot, a lot of things happening at once. I now realize why I’m clinically insane.

[01:01:29] [01:01:30] So thank you for this platform to realize my psychosis. 

[01:01:35] diane: You’ve come a long way. This is a lot of you pivoted by doing. Instead of doing your own, freelance business where you’re doing things for other people, you pivoted, I guess in 2020 was it? Mm-hmm. To do wild routed and it was, you were still kind of doing both things and then it went full in wild routed and then went full in wild [01:02:00] routed as wholesale and just focusing in.

[01:02:03] And those are some big pivots, but every pivot you’ve gotten focused in, I know that you’re, I know that your stuff is good, quality is amazing, but it’s also just that I know that other things aren’t as high quality out there and they’re getting, their conservators are buying those. So it’s just really, now it’s about what you [01:02:30] said in the very beginning.

[01:02:30] It’s about relationships and it’s just about building those relationships. And I think about how many times I’ve gotten a new client standing in line that they’ve seen nothing of what I’ve designed. Mm-hmm. I mean, and I am not a awesome dresser, so, you know, they can’t like really look at me and be like, I, because the way you dress, I’m gonna hire you to make my website.

[01:02:53] I like, I like doing dress, but well I wear a lot of wild rounded, but, maybe, maybe my shoes or my [01:03:00] glasses or whatever. Maybe it’s, but I think that it’s just goes to show that pouring time and energy into relationships, it just, that’s a great reminder and it kind of comes back to that as people aren’t just gonna see that they want to do something better for the environment.

[01:03:20] And you’re telling them by buying your product, they’re able to do that. So now they’re able to feel better about themselves, but also feel better about what they’re stocking in their store [01:03:30] stuff. So it’s. That that is, has always been there. The eco portion and the importance and your curiosity. And I think that that’s why you’ll always keep making awesome things and finding new products to make awesome things with.

[01:03:48] So I just wanna make sure that everybody knows I’m gonna put these other things, rich Dad, poor Dad Book, and the Scott Fulbright. You’re gonna have to send me his, web address. But I put the [01:04:00] Eco Enclo, all those will be on the page, but on on the page where? On Creatives Ignite. But your, two links, which is wild routed.

[01:04:12] W-I-L-D-R-O-U-T-E d.com and Rootle Box. Both of those will be, if you’re watching on YouTube, it’s right at the top or you’re listening, on wherever you get your podcast. It’s right at the top. Those two links are right at the top. If you want all the other links, just click on [01:04:30] the next, the next link down is the Creatives Ignite this episode link, and it will have the show notes, which will have those other links as well.

[01:04:37] But Dee, thank you for being, just being on the show so many times to be able to take us through the journey, to being honest about some things that haven’t gone the way you wanted, but also it’s like, oh, wow, I could have skipped ahead, I could have skipped two years or six months, or, [01:05:00] $20,000 had I not made this mistake.

[01:05:04] And I, we do make mistakes. We make mistakes and or. It’s just growing learning, but I, I totally believe in y’all and I, I just love what you do and I will continue to buy every shirt that you have. 

[01:05:20] Diana Ingles: yep. And if anybody has an idea for a guest on my podcast, the Eco Podcast, RLE Box, I would love that suggestion.

[01:05:28] diane: And they can get to the, [01:05:30] that podcast on wherever you find your podcast. But you could also get, if you go to rootle box.com, you can access the, or is it on Wild Routed? 

[01:05:40] Diana Ingles: So it’s on Rootle Box. I try to keep them separate. Okay. Because I’m gonna start offering, eco audits to National Park stores. So I’m trying to keep them a little bit separate because, you know, people can get brand confusion.

[01:05:52] diane: Yes, yes, for sure. Okay, so, well that’s good. Good to know. So make sure you check out Rootle Box Eco. Say [01:06:00] the podcast name again. Rootle Box R, just 

[01:06:03] Diana Ingles: R-O-T-L-E-B-O-X. Thanks to Aaron, Andrew Burnett who said, don’t name your social something different than your right, than your company names. That makes life so much easier.

[01:06:14] But you’re looking for eco. I mean, I already found it. People are making people who are making things. Okay. Or people who are doing something in recycling or like there’s a lady down south that is growing colored cotton, so you don’t have to dye it. And she’s been doing [01:06:30] it since the seventies. I so wanna talk to her.

[01:06:33] Oh my gosh. To get ahold of so, well, 

[01:06:35] diane: you’ll get her. I have. Oh, thank you Doc. Put it doc put it out. I’m gonna grab it so that I can have it as well. and I’ll put it on your page. thank you for being the last in this product design series. I love that you’re last, because you’ve had in all the years I’ve known you, you’ve gone through so many changes and [01:07:00] I think I.

[01:07:01] The more things you’ve tried, that gives us more things to do. And I think product design is, as we’ve found out in all these episodes, it is more than just a product journey or a customer journey. It’s more than just a UX or ui. It is, it, it’s just bigger and it is a confusing word to put in a job application.

[01:07:25] But I do believe that you’re a product designer. You’re also an [01:07:30] entrepreneur and an artist. And, anyway, an amazing friend. So I am super thankful that you were willing to do this with me in December. Very busy time. I super appreciate it. And next week, is the wrap up. So I’m gonna show you how I have not all the things I will have done my, year.

[01:07:54] Reflect, and then my year planning for 2025 and there’s some [01:08:00] changes coming up. So I’m excited to talk to you guys about those next week. And that’s whatever day is in a week. So today’s the, today’s the what? The fourth? So four plus seven is 11, I think. Sounds great. I think it’s the 11th and I’m doing my planning, session on the 10th.

[01:08:20] So we will see. And hopefully I’ll be able to have a little, have a little slide deck for you to show you things that I’ve done and, and where I wanna [01:08:30] go next. ’cause I think having a plan is important. Alright, Dee, thank you so much. Love you and I will see you guys next week.