Collaborate to Stand Out on the Web with Pippa Tanko

This week we are talking about collaboration and the benefits of using people you know well to help you stand out. Pippa Tanko is a branding photographer in the UK who has three areas of photography she works in, brand photography for creative business owners, product photography (wellness & home decor), and Architectural (construction & interiors).

We have been working together on her website which will launch next month and we are chatting about what to look for in a collaboration partner amongst other things.

Episode 462 LIVE on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2024 at 7:30pm GMT / 2:30pm ET / 11:30am PT / 9:30am in Hawaii.

I hope you will join us this Wednesday as we continue LOVE ON DESIGNERS month.

Week 4 is CONNECT

This week we want you to reach out to someone you don’t know and tell them how their work / life has inspired you.

Create a Social Media post and tag them (and us) telling them how they have inspired or helped you.
Reach out to a mentor and let them know how much they have meant to you.
Send a card to someone you have looked up to, to their office. Do a little digging and find the address. And craft an incredible envelope to go with the card.

I hope you will join us as we lift up the design community this month and spread the love.

We will be LIVE on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2024 at 7:30pm GMT / 2:30pm ET / 11:30am PT / 9:30am in Hawaii. Sign up to get the link at https://creativesignite.com/signup

Questions

1. Pippa, can you give everybody a little background about how your company uses strategy in your photography business and who you’re targeting? 
   
2. What was important for you when you were looking to create a new site? Why did you know it was time for a complete rebrand?
   
3. As we build your site, we’ve been digging into your business and what makes it different. These are things you do for your clients.
   
   Why is it so hard to do the strategy part for ourselves?
   
4. Strategy is critical to your business and to how you create for your clients. Your clients are trying to stand out in their marketing, on social media, and on their website.
   
   What kinds of things do you incorporate into your photography business in regards to strategy that allows them to stand out amongst their competition?
   
5. What do you hear your clients say about the strategy portion of your business they didn’t expect?
   
6. Strategy is also important for my business as I build websites for photographers, interior designers, and businesses in the real estate sector. We both have a framework we’ve perfected for our businesses.
   
   What kinds of things have I done strategy-wise that help communicate what you deliver and who you are that are atypical or that you didn’t expect?
   
7. In this economy, is it important to have different income streams? How do you not confuse your different audiences on your new site? (landing pages)
   
8. What are some ways you’ve built trust with a potential client? (lead magnets, posts, coffee dates)
   
9. What are some ways you’ve continued to built trust with a new client or an established client?
   
10. One of the reasons I love working with you Pippa is that you trust me. Was there anything I’ve done over the years that has helped build that trust?

I hope you will join us this Wednesday. We begin LOVE ON DESIGNERS. We will be LIVE on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2024 at 7:30pm GMT / 2:30pm ET / 11:30am PT / 9:30am in Hawaii. Sign up to get the link at https://creativesignite.com/signup

You can always join us for the live taping experience and be part of the community. Come a little early and introduce yourself in the chat, tell us where you are located in the world and say hey!  

Connect with Pippa

https://www.instagram.com/andpip.co.uk

https://www.linkedin.com/in/pippatanko-brand-photographer/

Website: https://andpip.co.uk

Listen

Transcript

[00:00:00] diane: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of Desi or Hmm, of Design Recharge. Used to be called Design Recharge. Now it’s called Creative Ignite. And sometimes when I’m really tired, I still call it design recharge clearly. Um, I have had a busy few weeks and I know you have too, Pippa, and I’m excited. So Pippa’s one of the people that I meet with [00:00:30] every Monday, and, um, and I love Pippa.

[00:00:34] We’ve known each other since 2021. Yeah, I think so. Like met weekly since 2021, which I think is, it’s pretty, that’s, I, I mean it’s, we’ve grown our businesses, we’ve done, we’ve, she’s obviously done lots of things on her own and separate, but then I get to hear about things and then this past December. Um, our little group met and we did this thing that [00:01:00] really helped me.

[00:01:00] It was our quarterly plan and we have another one coming up, I think sometime in March, where in March is our next quarter. We’ve already, we already have it on the books, but she’s one of those people that I get to fall on my face in my business with. I get to cry or be like, oh my gosh, I don’t think this is, I’m good at this.

[00:01:20] Or, I don’t think this is, should I do this? So there’s something about this. So a lot of what we’re gonna talk about is collaborating and how [00:01:30] it actually helps you in a lot more ways than you think. And, um, we were just talking before we went live about just our, how being friends, um, is a really nice way to collaborate.

[00:01:46] Um, so anyway, um, Pippa, tell everybody who you are, where you are, where you’re from, and what you do. Thanks so much, Diane. So, hey everyone. I’m pko [00:02:00] and I am a strategy driven brand photographer. I am based just south of London in the uk so it is nighttime here, as you can see. Um, yeah. And I help clients get really visible in their business so that they can attract the right people into their world.

[00:02:21] Yeah. Because if you don’t, if they don’t know you’re for them, they’re never going to call you or [00:02:30] book you or you’re not gonna come up in a search or anything. And I used to really, I, maybe this is just a trend, but I used to really just think, oh, I can do anything I can do. You need me to do that, no problem.

[00:02:41] I can do that. And I think you’ve done that too in photography, right? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. A hundred percent. But, but the, you are focusing now on three things. What are those three things? So I work mostly with creators and the three things that I’m focusing on are kind of [00:03:00] helping creators build their personal brand.

[00:03:02] Pippa Tanko: So that’s the first one, and really showing who they are and who they’re trying to attract. Um, the second is in the construction industry, which creating beautiful projects and beautiful buildings working with architects. And then the third is working with creators of products, whether that’s jewelry or homewares or anything like that.

[00:03:26] Or even wellness stuff. Right. So, or even wellness stuff. Yeah. [00:03:30] Sometimes, um, product photography does not, it doesn’t get across or the packaging doesn’t get across. How amazing. The product is, and that’s a huge thing that people are like, oh, that looks like plastic. I’m not paying that for this. You know?

[00:03:50] diane: And so photography is really, really important. And you have seen it, but you’ve also been working for, you’ve had some, um, big names. You’ve worked for some [00:04:00] people who you’ve made some really good collaborations. You, um, I think about, um, Aquila Jewelry. Mm-Hmm. Who was, uh, Etsy store. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[00:04:11] ’cause that just will jump into, um, Aquila and I can, I’ll find the link and uh Sure. So that you can share, but kind of tell where she was when she hired you and why she hired you. Sure. So I started working with Aquila a few years ago [00:04:30] now, and she was selling her jewelry on Etsy. She had just launched a website, but she wasn’t really getting the traction, um, on selling the products through the website.

[00:04:42] Pippa Tanko: And she had the most incredible story. And so what I helped her do was tell that story through her visuals and her product photography. So not just the story images, but also how we could pull that story in and [00:05:00] create a very consistent look and feel through all of her imagery. So she was feeling really frustrated because she had this beautiful jewelry, but she just was taking the photos herself and she couldn’t do it justice.

[00:05:13] And these were, you started, I think you started with her from a brand shoot, uh, like you were sure you weren’t starting in a product shoot, right? Absolutely. So I started off working on her personal brand imagery and that’s [00:05:30] where I started. And we did quite a varied shoot that first shoot, but mostly we were incorporating her and her story.

[00:05:38] All her, her jewelry comes from places she’s traveled to and has an emotional connection with. So we were trying to pull that through and show that through her, um, her Instagram channel and, and on her website. And then when she saw, we included these flat lays that you can see across the top there. Now this, um, [00:06:00] yes, the Uganda and the gra.

[00:06:01] So we created those flat lay jewelry pieces and she saw the value of how you can actually tell a story through product images. And that’s when she then hired me to. To create product images as well. I wish I could click on it and see it bigger. I know I can get bigger your site. Okay. But then, um, and she went, now she had, I was trying to find an about page or something, um, but I couldn’t, I, I [00:06:30] don’t see, oh, there we go.

[00:06:31] diane: Uh, but this is one of the things that you ha she has a store now and maybe she has two stores, right? So then we’re going from Etsy to now people value the, I mean, it’s huge, right? But if you’re talking about standing out, these images on Etsy still would stand out, but this allows her to feel like she can sell, uh, overseas or she can sell within country, things like that, right?[00:07:00] 

[00:07:00] Yes, absolutely. And what’s great is she’s also actually got some of the imagery that we’ve taken. Printed in blocks on the shelves so that you can see the jewelry and how it might feel like to wear it. You can see those model images. And so even when you’re in in store, it still brings in not only through the decor, decor, the store, but also through that imagery being on display in the storm.

[00:07:27] Yeah. And so it started out, [00:07:30] she contacted you. She wanted some, which most people do. They’re saying, Hey, Pippa, you’re a photographer. I want headshot. Headshot. But it’s so much more, it should be more than just headshot. And we talk and you love this part you, you absolutely love. Um, and Maya, yes. You saw, uh, she, we did one last year, the year before.

[00:07:58] Um. [00:08:00] Yes. And um, and she does paint as well. Pippa does paint. Uh, she’s been doing some creative stuff as well. Um, but this, uh, a, um, Aquila is not her name. That’s just the name of her company, right? No, her name is Stacy. Stacy, I always call her Aquila. Anyway, but you started with this and then you started shooting the products and there’s, um, and, and there’s other things that [00:08:30] she is now able to test.

[00:08:32] So again, a great collaboration. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that and then we’ll Sure, sure. So she has also started, she’s added a, a new kind of collection where it’s not down the jewelry route anymore. So she’s now introduced more homewares, uh, very much in line with, with her branding. And, and she sources them from the same locations as she sources the jewelry, but.

[00:08:54] Pippa Tanko: When she came to me and she’s like, I really don’t know how well these are gonna sell. Like, they [00:09:00] sell quite well in the store, but I’m not sure how they’re gonna do online. So what we did was we just shot a couple of them and said, right, let’s shoot them. Let’s, let’s do some test images and see how well they sell, and then if they sell really well, and if this is something that you want to pursue ongoing, then we can shoot the whole line and start to sell it.

[00:09:22] So we chose the two best products and we shot those. And now she’s testing that to see whether those are going [00:09:30] to sell. And then if the answer’s yes, then she’ll get the whole line. So it, it just helps you. Understand your target audience and whether they’re interested in what you, what you’re selling. So just testing and then seeing what sells and what doesn’t, which images they drawn to out of the, out of the images.

[00:09:49] And you can look at all of that through analytics. And you’re able to, you’re not, you’re not saying, oh, we’re gonna book a shoot that’s, you know, 80 pieces. That’s not what, [00:10:00] that’s not a test. Right. You’re, she had some pieces in her store. She wanted to see if those would sell online. This is a test is small, it’s a, if somebody’s booking you for a small, what would that, what does that look like?

[00:10:11] diane: How many pieces? So she did two pieces and we did five images. Per piece. So we could show the details, show the overall product, and then give more of a story image. So we tend to, with product photography, you need one image that’s really [00:10:30] shows the product and what you’re gonna get so that when someone orders it online, when it shows up, it is the same color as they saw it online.

[00:10:37] Pippa Tanko: It looks like it, it does when they receive it. Because what happens is if you get the color wrong or the fabric doesn’t look right, then they get it and they’re like, oh, this isn’t what I thought it would look like, now I’ll send it back. So it’s making sure you’ve got one image that is a true representation of the product, and then it’s selling the story, like what would it look like hanging in your home?

[00:10:59] And we [00:11:00] did some images of her, of them with sunlight, dappled sunlight on them to show what it could feel like in your home when that evening light is shining through your window. So. Then also some detail. So you get to see closeups of whatever it is, depending on each product. But on hers it was some bead work that we wanted to show and some stitching and that sort of thing.

[00:11:21] diane: How long, like when did she contact you and you did the head, I need headshots. When was that? Hmm, [00:11:30] I think that was in 2020. So in that amount of time she’s gone from Etsy to Yeah. A brick and mortar store to now selling online. Yeah. And a second store or She’s, so she trial to second store, but she’s actually now selling more wholesale into other stores.

[00:11:54] Pippa Tanko: So that’s a, that’s a new, a new element that she’s just added. But that was also, [00:12:00] um, prompted from just conversations with you. Yes, absolutely. So we had a meeting and we were chatting about how we could help her move the business forward. I’m very big on helping people, like seeing what their journey is, where their vision is, where they’re trying to get to, and then helping them, enabling them to get there.

[00:12:19] It’s not just about the photography, it’s about all the knowledge and expertise I bring. So it was a conversation where she was like, ah, I’m not really sure, like I could open another [00:12:30] shop, but we are really, we are really in this location and I haven’t found the right, the right other location for another store.

[00:12:37] So I’m not really sure. And I said, I asked her where, which is the one that scares you the most? And she was like, going wholesale. And I said, that’s probably the direction you need to go in, because in my experience, when I run towards the fear, I make really big progress. Um, one of the things that is different and, uh, Pippa and I are working together [00:13:00] now.

[00:13:00] diane: So we’re friends. Um, we’re, we’ve been in, in a small group where we meet, um, for three, two, I don’t three years I guess. Yeah. And, um, and then so Pippa went through a brand, um, a, a rebrand. Rebrand. A new name. It was a new logo. Right. And you did this with somebody who also was one of your clients, right? Yes.

[00:13:28] Yeah, that’s right. [00:13:30] So is that something, ’cause this seems like, did you know Aquila? I know that’s not her name. Did you know Stacy before she hired you? No, she was introduced to me by someone that I knew. Okay. So it’s, it’s a lot is telling your friends, telling people you know, that are in your space, that you are around about what you do.

[00:13:49] How many of us, Hey Amy, I see you over there. Um, how many of us maybe are friends, don’t know exactly what we’re doing, and maybe we’ve pivoted and we don’t know. So at this point, [00:14:00] um, Pippa has done lots of architecture and interiors for years. I mean years and years. Done products for years. Mm-Hmm. But, and the, you were pivoting to do more working with creatives, specifically in doing some of this brand photography, which is more than headshots.

[00:14:20] Um, so, but the thing I love is that, and Pippa and I are very similar in this way, that we tend to, um. Have a client and then [00:14:30] we, they stay with us. And it’s not like they’re like, oh, I need a new look. I’ve gotta go to somebody else with a new photography, because it’s never Pippa’s photography. It’s for the person.

[00:14:41] It’s what they need. And so, which is very designer based as well. And, um, you’ve done lots of, uh, groups where you’re learning and you pay for your education, so we’re similar in that. But you, um, so you, Richard, uh, was your [00:15:00] client and he did your rebrand. That’s correct. And like, how did you decide, um, that he was the right one for this?

[00:15:09] Pippa Tanko: I think for me, and certainly I think this rings true for, for the clients that come to me, is that I. I need to know, I can trust that person before I will trust them enough to work with them or to spend money with them. I need to trust that they are good at what they [00:15:30] do, that they are, we are aligned, our values are aligned, our beliefs are aligned, and I don’t think you’re really good friends with people where those donor line so.

[00:15:41] I think for me it’s having had that relationship before I knew I needed his services. And so, and that’s certainly true when I’m working or or marketing to clients, I’m looking to build a relationship with people because [00:16:00] sometimes they’ll only need me nine months a year down the line. But if you have that test tried and tested relationship, then it also means that when you work together, it is much more collaborative.

[00:16:14] It feels much more collaborative because you have a strong relationship. Do I get clients where I don’t have that relationship? Absolutely. And they usually come. Through a referral, which builds up the trust very, very quickly. And then my whole process that I have and the [00:16:30] strategy that I put in place is all to enable us to build that relationship before I stick a camera in their face.

[00:16:36] So I love that. So it’s not just, we’re some, and same way with me, not all of my clients, I would also say are collaborators. And so, um, oh, were you on a Melanie Chadwick podcast? Yeah, I, I was looking, I’m racking my brains. Trying to think. I don’t think it was me. I don’t know. It might’ve been, and I’ve forgotten, but I [00:17:00] don’t think so.

[00:17:02] diane: She’s had a busy year people. Um, okay. So, but I love, and, and not all of our clients are gonna be that, um, we’re gonna be really good friends with them. And some people just, they, um, I, it, it. It isn’t in, it’s not that they’re bad if they’re not, it, it’s also just, um, it’s just the type of, uh, relationship that you have.

[00:17:26] I don’t think everybody should be, but I think [00:17:30] some, I mean, I really like doing that, but I also think, like when I’m doing web work, I usually, um, I mean, I think it’s weird that I’ve done some people’s sites three times. It’s not that they don’t like it, it’s that. In five years, I start bugging them. I’m like, Hey, we need to do a new site.

[00:17:48] And then we do a new, another site and then, you know, in another five years we do another site. And so, um, I think, you know, our businesses change, we change our vision for the business change. We, we, [00:18:00] we got to the vision we were looking to get to when we first built that website, and now it’s time to move onto the next step.

[00:18:08] Pippa Tanko: And, and so that’s really what made me decide to pivot or to change my branding and rebrand, was because my business had changed so much from where it was, and I had a new message to share. I solved different problems to what I was solving before I learned a lot more. You know, I wanted to show the other elements that I had [00:18:30] to offer that were not just photography.

[00:18:32] So I think it’s when you have that change, and sometimes I. I was chatting to someone this morning and she said, every now and then, your business is like a glow stick. You have to break it to make it shine again. And that’s kind of what I feel like I’ve gone through. I’ve had to kind of break what I was doing and now build up this new kind of better version of it that adds all the other elements that I now offer into it.

[00:18:59] diane: And it’s also, [00:19:00] you’ve figured out what you really like. You’ve figured out what you are, how you are different. Mm-Hmm. And you’ve continued to refine and you, you know, how really your, the way you photograph, the way you work with people can really help their business. And I think that, um, it’s definitely niched, but you have three different areas, like the same people we’re building landing pages so that each of [00:19:30] those people are gonna be able to go and feel like it’s just really about them.

[00:19:33] But, um. When you were looking, so you had the rebrand. Um, and this is, this makes me feel weird ’cause this is about me and I, Pippa already knows this and y’all probably know this too, but, um, it makes me uncomfortable. So, what was important for you? I’m just reading the question. What was important for you when you were looking to create a new site?

[00:19:54] Um, when, when did you know that it was time, uh, I mean you [00:20:00] had the rebrand, you knew you were offering something different. Was it just a automatic, you were just gonna, instead of using the same, um, layout you had before, you know, and just put new pictures in? Why decide to do a new site? So I wanted it to be different.

[00:20:18] Pippa Tanko: I didn’t want it to look like all the other sites. And when I’ve built sites for myself, what I tend to do is I go and look at other people’s sites that I love and then I copy elements of them. [00:20:30] And I, about two years ago, I stopped following lots of photographers because I felt like I was constantly comparing myself to them and deciding who was better than me and who wasn’t.

[00:20:44] Whereas I didn’t actually know whether that was true. And I was getting distracted by what this shiny thing was, and that shiny thing was. And so what I wanted was something that was very me in my unique way. And when I stopped following a lot of [00:21:00] photographers, I started to, I always use this and I never get it right, but march to the beat of my own drum.

[00:21:07] And so when I was looking at building a website, I wanted someone who could help. See me from an external perspective because it’s very hard to see yourself through someone else’s eyes. And so that’s why I decided it was something I wanted to outsource, something I wanted someone else on. But I think what really attracted me to [00:21:30] you was the creative element that you bring and your kind of understanding and like the way you pull out bits of my story and what’s going on, and you, you have this real clarity in how I look from the outside.

[00:21:44] And I think that just came through having conversations with you over the past, however long we’ve known each other. So that’s how I built trust was. And, and you were able to see when I was proud of something that I had, um, [00:22:00] done. And Amy Lyons, I use, I always use your e your, um. Your case studies page, so you can just plop that over there in the chat.

[00:22:08] diane: ’cause I’m always using that and I showed Pippa too, so, um, I’m, are you okay if I share a little bit or I’m gonna share that you can’t go there yet, but soon We are really close to being able to launch. Um, are you good if I go under the hood with these people? Yes, let’s do it. All right. Um, I am [00:22:30] sharing, um, the new homepage now.

[00:22:32] I use StoryBrand as my, um, as how I build. And one thing that Pippa had said was, I, she wanted it to be different and it’s getting, now it’s clear. Um, I. So I decided, okay, let’s make some buttons that are different. Let’s use these angles. And this is not a slider, this is a video. I just [00:23:00] made a video of some of the images that she had and, um, all of the stuff, the type is stuff she said in many of our conversations.

[00:23:11] But when we were going through the StoryBrand framework, which I do with everybody and we’ve done it, um, people do it for different. If it was like a Aquila and it was, you were doing it for her home products, you could do it for Aquila, the whole store. You could do it [00:23:30] Aquila Wholesale, you could do a Aquila, um, jewelry and you could do a, a rings, even if it was just rings and then other kinds of jewelry or whatever.

[00:23:38] And there’s the Uganda and we see it bigger finally. Um, but that was something, um, the colors were, and the typography was given to me by Richard. Right. That was something I am really, um, if somebody set something for you, I am going to, um, absolutely use those things. [00:24:00] And it wasn’t, and there’s Richard, um, it wasn’t, um, there was a whole bunch of fonts that we needed to use on the web or whatever.

[00:24:08] So I did get to add some other things, but, um. Do you wanna say anything about this part of the site? What I, what I loved is that actually the brief that I gave Diane, I think is what, that I wanted to bring something African into my, my branding or my website. And [00:24:30] the, the colors that I’ve used through the branding, the, the pink and the yellow is that representing the African sunset.

[00:24:38] Pippa Tanko: So that’s actually very much a part of me. But not only that, those are the colors I often wear as a person, as you can probably see. Um, but I, I was really excited by the fact that Diane was creating some patterns at the time and I was like, I would really like to bring in some African something, whether it’s African design, African patterns, [00:25:00] um, and create something.

[00:25:02] So I really love these, these, um, three elements at the bottom that connect the standout and stay like tho those have been created. And are unique. They’re created by Diane and they’re unique. They’re not something we’ve downloaded from somewhere and that we’ve decided to use. And that was really important to me.

[00:25:20] And that’s one of the reasons why I chose Diane to be able to help me design this because I wanted it to be uniquely [00:25:30] me and different, but aligned with who I am and my story, which is I was born in, in South Africa, and that’s a big part of who I am. And so I wa I still am working on patterns, but this is something that I found.

[00:25:46] diane: I was like, you know what? I would really like to bring patterns into the websites I make. You know, sometimes when you get to um, a, a row, it needs something [00:26:00] else. And so I had made all these, um, and then I, uh, am using the color palettes and then I can’t tell you how many rock, uh, different color. Combos we had, and, um, sizes of rocks and sizes, all sorts of different things.

[00:26:17] But, and this is something that now she has in, she has these patterns to be able to use because I, I’m not creating them, um, for me, uh, I’m creating them for her to be able to use. [00:26:30] And, and this was stuff that we did early. We did, we work on the homepage and we worked on patterns. But some of the patterns that I’ve created, so these are custom icons, which I think sometimes maybe people don’t always do, but just like Pippa does with her clients, she’s not just like, oh, wear the blue shirt and we’re gonna go set you in front of this one wall.

[00:26:51] That I always shoot all my clients. That is not like that at all for her. And it’s not like that for me either. Um, [00:27:00] uh, I am always the, this. Her main thing, let’s talk is where you can go and you can bick book, you can bick, I don’t know, you can book your 30 minute call and you’re just reminded so you don’t have to scroll up and out and all this stuff.

[00:27:16] But this is one of the patterns, um, that we did, that I did for Pippa that we’re using subtly. We’d use it at the top and then when you’re going into a, um, uh, [00:27:30] like mobile or tablet, it’s still there too. Sometimes it’s a little bit behind, um, some of the type. Is there anything else you wanna talk about with that one?

[00:27:40] Again, I’ve, I’ve been able to take some of these, I’ve used this one again when I’m sending emails out to clients or to, to my audience. And so it’s got that kind of consistency from my website through to the other elements. And I’m sure I’ll be using them in social media posts and things like that. But it’s just another [00:28:00] element that we’ve brought that also aligns because it has that African feel and it feels aligned with me.

[00:28:08] Pippa Tanko: And I don’t think we’re done making patterns, we’re done right now ’cause we gotta finish some more things. But, um, I think that that’s something, ’cause she’s shown me other things. I’m not copying things, I’m using things just like we would for anybody as inspiration. As inspiration and, and using her brand colors to, to do those things.

[00:28:26] diane: So, um. We, she [00:28:30] already has, uh, lead magnets. This is one of her lead magnets, which I love. Um, that these will be rotating quarterly, which again, if you’re thinking about standing out people, you, you can send them to a page that’s just this lead magnet, um, where then you’re able to contact them. But hers changes every, um, and hers will change for those other landing pages for architecture and construction and interiors is gonna have a, maybe a different lead magnet [00:29:00] than Yeah, the product.

[00:29:02] Uh, or, or even this. So, um, this is where it really goes into the product photography, the brand photography, and then the architectural photography, which is also interior. So interiors and exteriors. One thing, since I’ve known Pippa, she added drones, so that’s gonna be one of our, um, new pages that we do, but.

[00:29:25] This one was pretty interesting is that anything that was on their website [00:29:30] looked like plastic. But when she was sent the product, it was glass. And I think again, that shows, oh, we really need to focus on this because maybe they were using, this is where digitally created images, right? And it didn’t show the quality of the product at all because you didn’t get that idea that it was glass.

[00:29:53] Pippa Tanko: It just looked like a plastic bottle. And actually it’s a very high quality product and the glass has, it plays [00:30:00] a very important part in how you store that product. So it was crazy that they had these images that didn’t show that element or make it look as high end as it as it should have because of the quality of the product.

[00:30:14] And so, uh oh, this is something else that I don’t even know where this is on my, um. But these are two people that we also met in a group that we were in. And again, they, she has built trust and now they have, [00:30:30] um, signed up and they’re using her and they pick a package that works for them and they’ve picked Pippa.

[00:30:39] diane: Um, and these are two, uh, uh, call’s been on a couple times. He’s the designer and then Tom is the developer. And they have, uh, few and far. Yeah, but they decided to go with Pippa because they knew her. And often times, um, you know, we need new headshots [00:31:00] often, or, or we don’t need to be like me And Carrie told me earlier, uh, and I think this was great, Carrie Care was like, Diane, that photo on your podcast thing is like from 2014.

[00:31:14] I do not know how to change it. If anybody knows how to change your Apple Podcast image. I think they say it’s easy. I have reached out. It is not easy. I cannot figure out how to change it, but um, but needless to say, I do need new headshots and man, if Pippa [00:31:30] was over here, she would be, I would be getting to do my headshots.

[00:31:33] But, um, they chose you and it is a lot of times photography, it is about a relationship and you do something different and you talk about how you, kind of, your process, they book a call, you decide on the package, but there’s all these strategy sessions that you have done with everybody that you do. Do you wanna walk through that?

[00:31:53] Because this was a big thing. This is a big thing for all of your clients, even your architecture clients. You [00:32:00] sit down with them and you have to know what type of shoot it is. But for Tom and call, what, what do you think was, um, you, you do a strategy. Can you walk us through the strategy session? So I think with, with Tom and Cole, we had known each other a while and that was, that was why they reached out.

[00:32:22] Pippa Tanko: But one of the things that is very, it’s one of the, the problems that my clients face on a, [00:32:30] I think ev most clients that come to me is that nobody loves having their photo taken. So it can feel quite awkward when you’ve met a photographer and you have spoken to them on email, maybe booked them, and you’ve arranged to meet, you’ve never seen them before, you’ve never had a conversation before.

[00:32:47] Maybe you’ve had a quick call with them over Zoom. But, um, I think a lot of. There is the strategy, which plays a very vital role, but there’s another element to it that is [00:33:00] the hidden element of what that strategy does. But what it does is it helps me build a relationship even further with the client. So for those clients that are not, haven’t known me for a long time, they’re coming in and we’re meeting and we’re doing half a day together before I pick a camera up and point it in their face.

[00:33:17] So that element is something completely different. And I’ve learned over the years of experience that that helps us so much on the day feel relaxed when it’s time to actually [00:33:30] take their photos. But what I’m really trying to do with the strategy piece is actually understand where they are now. Mm-Hmm.

[00:33:37] Where they’re trying to get to and how we can create a vision for that so that we are showing them. That way now so that they can get there faster. Because you’ve said this so many times, and I know this is, I, I don’t know if I’ve seen photographers do what you do. I definitely haven’t seen them do the kind of [00:34:00] strategy you do, but you also have packages, which this isn’t a sell Pippa package, uh, episode, but what what it is, is maybe there are things that will help us.

[00:34:11] diane: Can you put something in a package so that people become a repeat? Um, because otherwise you’re just going on a whole bunch. You are going on a whole bunch of first dates and they’re going on a whole bunch of first states. So the trust isn’t there. And I also think about with Tom and Call, they’re telling stories.

[00:34:28] They do, [00:34:30] um, uh, nonprofits. Y’all call ’em charities. Charities, yeah. And, and so I was trying to think, what do they call ’em? Um, but it’s charities, so. They are having to tell the story. And you talk about it with Aquila, you talk about it with the, um, nano minerals, right? Mm-Hmm, yeah. Nano minerals. It is a story.

[00:34:52] You’re telling the story and it’s so much richer. But when you’re a designer or a design developer team [00:35:00] and you’re trying to tell the story of a charity to, to win, uh, more, uh, so people donate or so that more they can help more people so that people know where to go to get this help that they’re looking for, you have to tell those stories so that those people, when they’re coming to your website or they’re seeing you on social media, um, you are able to do this.

[00:35:23] And this is one thing, again, maybe this is, it’s really good that Pippa did tons of research on other [00:35:30] photographers for so many years, and then she put it down and she started. Like really diving into what was gonna work for her business, what did would she want? And one of the things I love is number four on the process of Pippa, the process of Pippa is that you get a bank of images, you can use ’em however you want.

[00:35:48] I know that when I’ve worked with photographers before, they’ve said, well, you can’t use this this way and you have to pay something else if you’re doing this. So there’s all these like hidden fees and you [00:36:00] feel like, oh my gosh, I thought I was already spending a good bit and now I’m having to spend EV extra more.

[00:36:07] And it’s like, Nope. Pippa’s, like I know what you want and what you need. I maybe sometimes know what you need. You say you’re not gonna use these for social yet, but. I know you, you will and you can. And once you understand, instead of it just having this head headshot, headshot, headshot, it’s these, we’re talking about what you’re doing and you’re shooting [00:36:30] Tom and call in different scenes with different scenarios with clients or maybe not.

[00:36:37] ’cause they have maybe some things that they’re like, well, we don’t wanna show our clients here. But sometimes there will be people that you’re able to show, but it’s the more she knows them, she is trying to tell that story story. And the more I can understand who they’re trying to attract, and I think that was a, one of the things that came out with charities are really risk averse.

[00:36:57] Pippa Tanko: That it’s all about building that trust. [00:37:00] So showing them in a light that builds that trust and is quite, I think. You can almost create a barrier if you’re too high end for a charity. Yeah. And so finding a way to make you more approachable and make your your story more relatable to your target audience can be very powerful.

[00:37:23] So that’s another element. The strategy covers really understanding, understanding your dream clients or your [00:37:30] ideal clients or your niche, and then creating imagery that aligns with them and what they are going to, you know, relate to and, and connect with. So then in, in packages, are you doing, and I, maybe I should know this, but are you doing different strategy sessions?

[00:37:52] diane: Say somebody books a one year. ’cause I think this, this is what I love about PMA PPAs. So say it’s a design firm [00:38:00] or, um, ’cause I know like with architecture, they’re doing projects all the time. They may have you once a month. Mm-Hmm. Um, an interior people are doing, they need you to photograph the, uh, stuff.

[00:38:10] But as a design firm, um, or a branding agency like Richard or something, what, how many times are you sitting down with them and adjusting what the strategy is? Or is it once a year? Is it once. So we, we do strategy at the beginning and then we [00:38:30] kind of plan out the shoots. But sometimes within that year, something changes or there’s a pivot.

[00:38:38] Pippa Tanko: So what we are doing is we’re reaching out quarterly. So generally it’s quarterly, um, unless they’ve got something very specific going on at a specific time, they want captured. But we are sitting down and generally the first couple of shoots are. Quite clear what we need to do. And then after that, we’re having another session to figure out, right where, where are we?

[00:38:59] [00:39:00] What have we achieved? What images have we got? Where are the gaps? Where are the holes? Uh, what, what are you trying to achieve now? And with Tom and Cole, they’re very much trying to do a lot more speaking gigs. They’re trying to show that interaction, but in order to do that, they need to show that they can.

[00:39:17] So it’s like, right, well, you’ve got no images of you guys speaking, so how can we, where can we, what can we create to show that part of the story and communicate that to your audience? Because we decipher [00:39:30] images, I think, 60,000 times faster than we do text. So you can, you know, in a matter of seconds, people can decipher that.

[00:39:38] So how can we create images that people can decode really quickly and understand exactly what you’re trying to achieve? You should put that. Fact on your website. That’s a really, I, I’ve recently used it in a, in a workshop that I was delivering. And now, now it’s ingrained in my brain 60,000 times faster than text.

[00:39:58] And [00:40:00] 90% of what the image the brain absorbs is through images is visual. And, and that helps all of us who are here watching this, who are visual, um, creatives. I mean, that’s information that we are able to use. But this is the stuff that I love about Pippa. ’cause she’s doing this research and she’s finding this information and then she’s taking it and saying, you know what?

[00:40:22] diane: I can help my clients with this too. Um, so with Tom and Call, they have had a pivot and they, so [00:40:30] they planned out the shoot. They’re on shoot three, shoot number three now. Mm-hmm. Then there may, there’s a, a pivot coming, Hey, we need to do this now instead of what we had planned. We can do the other one later.

[00:40:43] Um, but this now becomes something that, um, they can count on Pippa and also Pippa can count on them. And then she knows how many new clients she has to go and, um, you know, tell who what she does and [00:41:00] is able to do. Mm-Hmm. Um, why do you think it’s so hard? Because I did strategy on you. You did strategy on them.

[00:41:09] Why is it so hard to do strategy on ourselves? Should we feel like a loser? Because we can’t. No, absolutely. I think it’s very hard when you in it, I think it goes back to that external perspective, right? You can’t see the value you bring because you are in it every single day. And often, you know, we’ve talked about how we meet every [00:41:30] Monday and we’re in that pod and a lot of what we talk about is quite similar and we understand the value of what we are doing and, and so you get to a point where you surrounded yourself with like-minded people that understand what you do and you think, oh, everybody knows this stuff.

[00:41:45] Pippa Tanko: Everybody knows this. And so you don’t realize how much you have to offer until someone comes out and goes, actually, like, I, I see this, but I never knew that, or, I see that and I I didn’t know that before I met you. [00:42:00] So it’s under, it’s having that external person going, Hey, you, you’re not just the same as everybody.

[00:42:07] You’re not. And, and being able to pull that stuff out of you and show. Where you are different and just help, help you to get that external perspective. One thing I love about our pod is that we can cheer when we’re nervous, but we can also share when we have a win. And so recently, we don’t have to say who it was, but you were nervous about meeting with a new client.

[00:42:28] diane: And um, [00:42:30] and sometimes, you know, we have this idea of who this client is and we’re like, we think they have all their, they do have all their stuff together and they are, it’s making us like, Hey, I need to make sure I’ve got my everything polished. I know I gotta make sure I’ve got everything because I might need to take another little, uh, refresher course, or I need to do, and I do this too.

[00:42:52] And I love that we, we are in that group and you’re able to share that. But then after. You had this awesome [00:43:00] call with this, uh, new client, they were blown away at how thorough you were. And I feel like again, you were friends with this person before or you had a relationship, you were building relationships.

[00:43:13] Mm-Hmm. And because that person was able to share with you, wow, this is more, I didn’t know you did all of this. Mm-Hmm. That then it’s like, oh, I also need to be telling people that I do all this stuff. Yeah, [00:43:30] absolutely. And I think that was really great feedback from a client who I did that strategy piece and he was like, you’ve just delivered 10 times more than what I was expecting.

[00:43:41] Pippa Tanko: And so you need to find a way to communicate that so that other people will be like, I want that. I need that. And so having that feedback. Is invaluable. And I think that’s a lot where the collaboration comes into play is that it is about like, [00:44:00] well, I see it this way, what do you think? Or, I see it this way.

[00:44:03] And even with Tom and Cole, we have that like, let’s mood board together. Let’s think about the shoot, let’s mood board. I’ll see what they producing and what I think, and then we find a way to make it work and I’ll have a case for why I think it should be this way. And they’ll have a case for, well this is how we see our vision.

[00:44:22] And then somewhere in the middle we marry those to align with who they are and who they’re trying to attract, as well as their vision for the [00:44:30] brand. All right. So I wanna share one more, uh, maybe, maybe more than one thing, but I wanna share this. So this is something else that Pippa does, is this kind of.

[00:44:39] diane: Specifically for brand. And I think, you know, some people are taking a changing and they’re pivoting in a way and they’re doing something. Um, maybe they’re adding a new offering or something, but oftentimes maybe it’s a pivot in the brand personality. And one of the best things that, um, just [00:45:00] like that guy said to, uh, Pippa recently, Pippa took, gave me one of the best compliments, and I don’t know if you remember saying this or not, but hopefully you weren’t drinking when you said this.

[00:45:10] Um, I know you weren’t because it was too early when we meet. But anyway, um, I. But you said, oh, when I had put all the text in, because we do the text. It’s not like I’m waiting for her to gimme the text. She does all the text while we’re talking and I pull it out and I rewrite it. And obviously if she wants me to change a word or change the [00:45:30] whole sentence or a paragraph.

[00:45:31] And I see that’s one of the things that I’ve found so powerful in, in the way that you work, is that I don’t have to go away and spend hours trying to figure out the content and write it all down, because then I’m also using my language that I would use. But also I’m thinking about what language my clients are using and that all comes through here.

[00:45:53] Pippa Tanko: And because, I’m sorry, I interrupted. No, no, no. That’s good. But she said that it felt like the [00:46:00] photographer, she’s wanted to be, this is the one, and I realize I have two spaces right here. Oh, Diane. Pippa remind me to get that extra space right there. I would never have noticed it. Uh, Paul would’ve, Paul’s probably like Diane after personnel.

[00:46:15] diane: I’m just kidding. Paul would though, and I’m thankful I’m, Hey, I need people that tell me I got these spaces. And that was one of the things that also drew me to you is because you, you have this way of seeing things. Like, I wouldn’t notice that little thing, but you’d be like this, you just gotta [00:46:30] align this and change this.

[00:46:31] Pippa Tanko: And you can’t have one little word hanging off the bottom here. There is a lot of technical stuff on web that I really get nitty gritty on, and that’s why we have two columns right here, which is because I’m not that person. I can’t see that stuff. I’m not, it’s not, uh, I’m completely different. My experience as a photographer, it’s not how text looks on a page.

[00:46:53] So that was an element of your experience that, that I couldn’t, couldn’t bring. Well, [00:47:00] I’m happy to be all anal. Anal Annie there for you. Okay. So, but maybe your business is pivoting in a personality way. And I think Pippa has this, she sent me this old, old logo and it was like, um, gangster, Pippa. And it was like personality wise, that’s not who I think of Pippa.

[00:47:21] diane: But this is something that she does with every, all of her brand personality clients. And maybe you do it with the architecture [00:47:30] and interiors and product people as well. But can you talk a little bit about this brand personality and what, ’cause I do think this could be a another time where people might need to pivot.

[00:47:41] And Paul, I did see your question. I will ask it next. So I think it’s so important to show who we are because it’s the one thing no one else can copy is who we are. So it’s that personal element. And when I’m working with someone. I [00:48:00] remember when I first started, people were like, how do you decide? How do you decide how to photograph someone?

[00:48:05] Pippa Tanko: How do you decide? And I was like, I don’t know. I just, I meet them and it paints a picture in my head and I don’t know how it comes, but it comes from me getting to know them and understand them and understand who they are as a person. And then it paints a picture in my head. And so a lot of this comes out in the strategy.

[00:48:26] And then this paint picture is created. And I’m not sure if I’m [00:48:30] answering your question, but the way that I see it is there are four seasons. Mm-Hmm. And so I have like, you can have spring images that are very light and bright and airy, and then you can have autumn images, which are a lot more earthy and warm and have warmer tones.

[00:48:47] Or you can have really bold, bright photography. And all of that leads into. You as a, a person and you as a brand. And, um, even at the top left [00:49:00] there, the alternative, that’s Beth, who is a, a photo fellow photographer, and this week we’ve been talking about doing shoots for each other and doing a shoot swap.

[00:49:10] And sh our brands are so completely different. So she was like, well, I’d really like to go to the beach. And I was like, oh, it’s not really on brand for me. So. We’ve decided to split it into two shoots. One where I’ll focus on her and so that we can make sure we are getting the right look and feel and location for her [00:49:30] brand and her personality.

[00:49:31] And then we’re gonna book us do another shoot for me on another day where it’s the location and the images are gonna be more aligned to me and my branding and my personality because it’s really important to attract the right person. Just even with, even in product photography, plastic is not gonna attract the same thing as glass.

[00:49:54] diane: And, and you, I think it’s really important how you, how you do this. And this kind of [00:50:00] goes into Paul’s question. Um, and, and we’ve talked about this and I can answer this, but I’m gonna let you attack it first and we’ll see. So I do all this stuff, right? Um, often is in opposition with what the marketing or the industry is telling us that we niche down.

[00:50:15] And how do you balance these competing directions? And I, I, I would think he’s asking, okay, you have three different areas of, um, your business and they’re, they’re different. You know, [00:50:30] how do you niche down? How do you, and you and I specifically had, have had conversations recently about, well, how many, you know, brand clients do you need?

[00:50:40] Or do you want a year? How many architecture and construction and interior clients do you need a year? And how many, ’cause sometimes it’s about your physical. Am I able to go e you have little kids? Can you go up to Scotland every week? Probably not. So, yeah, probably [00:51:00] not. I think, um, if I’ve understood the, the question correctly, I think.

[00:51:05] Pippa Tanko: Targeting those three landing pages very specifically to those clients, but still aligning it with who I am and who I am as a person. Because I think it’s just as important to repel the people you don’t want to work with through who you are, because I might be very loud and creative and bold and outgoing, and so that might not work well with an introvert who’s like, oh, [00:51:30] I’m, I’m quite quiet and shy and I need someone a little bit calmer.

[00:51:33] Otherwise, it overwhelms me. Like, I also wanna work with people that are outgoing and confident and, and, you know, and our personalities align and photography is so personal. So I think you have to have that, that connection with someone. Um, so. Taking your personality and then who you’re trying to attract.

[00:51:54] And I always say developing your uni unique style is marrying those two things together. So [00:52:00] like for the construction, I’m marrying who I am and who they are into their, their landing page. And then for the products I’m marrying who I am and who they are into that landing page. And then the personal branding is the personal branding.

[00:52:14] So it’s just having a very clear understanding. And I think it is important to niche. I think if you speak to everyone, you speak to no one, but niching isn’t the easy, you know, and you have to find the balance. And so [00:52:30] for me, I have very set number of big construction and, and architectural companies that I work with.

[00:52:36] And then I have a set number of personal brand people that I work with and a set number of product photographers that I work with, or product photographers, product, um, companies that I work with. And. I decide, right? I’ve got, most of my quota are on the branding side. I need to now really push on the, on the construction side of things so that I can get some of those [00:53:00] projects in.

[00:53:01] So it just helps me realize where to focus my marketing efforts. I didn’t read the question, so I’m not sure. No, that’s good. So that, um, but that means, so if you were going, Paul is a book designer, so he was, if he was like, you know what I, and he loves nonfiction doing stuff with artists. He does awesome stuff.

[00:53:21] diane: He also does stuff with, um, uh, indigenous peoples and their languages and little kid books and stuff. Mm-Hmm. But those are [00:53:30] totally different, you know? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, but it, I do think it’s like, it’s about, I don’t know if it’s a miss market. If you’re saying, Hey, I do this and I this, it’s, it’s, Hey, I’m targeting the people who are indigenous people and they want to put out.

[00:53:46] Um, kids’ books to teach their language and being clear when you’re marketing for that, that you have all these different, um, pieces that you’re marketing for that, um, that [00:54:00] strain of the people. But I don’t think that you’re, it’s, um, confusing because the, the little kid books are not gonna be the same as the nonfiction, you know, books or something.

[00:54:13] Mm-Hmm. Same thing with Pippa. I don’t think that the people that are come gonna come to her, you, as for the architecture work or the interior design work, that’s fine. If you have branding, they don’t, they just see that as maybe interesting. Um, but [00:54:30] they’re gonna hone in when you’re talking about architecture and construction, and they’re gonna see that more.

[00:54:37] I don’t, I don’t think that we, I’m gonna speak more to their problems and pain points and, and symptoms that they’re having when I’m marketing to them. So they’re gonna go, oh, that’s exactly how I feel because I’m, I’m aiming it all very specifically to them. So not just the images, but also the, the [00:55:00] content of the website or the landing page is very much so that people go, oh, this is speaking to me.

[00:55:05] Pippa Tanko: And then I can have, you know, social posts or Right. Or whatever it is that are targeted or targeted to get them from that social content onto my landing page or that Google advert onto my landing page or that Facebook ad that’s onto my landing page and everything that I’m showing them speaks to them.

[00:55:28] But then they’re looking at my [00:55:30] portfolio and they’re like, oh, she also does branding and she also does products, but everything she’s. Told me so far speaking to me. So they might see that I’m doing other things as well, but the fact that I get them and I understand what’s going on in their world means that they’re much more likely to trust me.

[00:55:48] And you’re thorough in those three worlds. I mean, you may do other things as well, but you’re focusing on those three things because for your business, you may not, um, need to be [00:56:00] traveling every week of every month. You need some things that are product or some things that are just the people because of just some of the other things that go into maybe the architecture or something.

[00:56:12] diane: So you can do more products at home and have those shots. So I, I think that it’s, I, I don’t feel like it’s a non niche. I feel like it is. I think the niche is creators. So it’s still under that creator umbrella. Absolutely. [00:56:30] They’re just different elements of that creator. Because I could, I could go right, I’m gonna go all in on architects and construction, and I could do that and.

[00:56:42] Pippa Tanko: Then I would miss out on some of the elements I love about working with people and getting to, to, to make people smile. And then when I do the architecture work, I don’t have to make a building smile. You know, I get to, I get to show other elements that I love because I love finding the beauty and the [00:57:00] mundane.

[00:57:00] I love finding the little elements and the, the details of buildings that show that architectural merit. So it’s just finding those different elements and that’s really fulfilling for me. And I think business should be fulfilling. You know, I think we, we shouldn’t spend all day grinding it. Something that we don’t enjoy.

[00:57:19] So it’s about, the balance for me is about giving me joy in what I do. And when I’m telling the story of a product and I’m in my studio here and it’s quiet, I’ve got my music on [00:57:30] and I’m doing my thing, you know, my kids can be in the house that day. I. I can do those in the holidays and all sorts of things.

[00:57:36] So it’s very much working it around me and the lifestyle that I want as well. But I think another thin red line is not just creatives, it’s also that you are helping them tell their story. Mm-Hmm. The story of the building, the story of, um, I love the, the beauty in the mundane and because that is, that’s Tom and call, or that, not that they’re mundane, but we all feel like we’re mundane, you know?

[00:57:58] diane: Mm-Hmm. And that’s the, the ring or [00:58:00] this very simple necklace or Mm-Hmm. The glass bottle with the nano minerals inside. You know, I think that it’s making something, it’s elevating something to the, to the level of the product instead of, uh, we just did this, this is the best we could do. And it’s not, um, going across.

[00:58:19] So, um, I do think it’s important to have different income streams and this is how you have split it. So I think this is a really good, um, way that we’re kind of [00:58:30] taking this conversation. And I know we’re out of time, but. But I think that when we are so. I know that everybody says niche, but you are niched, you’re niched on creatives.

[00:58:41] Um, you’re niched on telling a story and telling it in in their way and not necessarily Pippa’s way. And it’s taken time to build up each niche. You know, I focused on one niche for one year and build that up and build, and got to understand that client very deeply and created the lead [00:59:00] magnets towards that client, the language and the messaging towards that client.

[00:59:04] Pippa Tanko: Then I’ve said, right, I’ve got that down. I’ve, I’ve got that niche. I know how to speak to them, right? I’m going to now focus on this next niche for the next year, and I’m gonna do lots of market research. I’m gonna talk to lots of them. I’m gonna find out exactly what their problems and pain points are.

[00:59:19] I’m gonna create lead magnets and systems around what’s gonna be more beneficial for them. And then when I’ve got that one down, then I’ve pivoted down into another one. So I haven’t just gone [00:59:30] right. I’m gonna focus on three niches all at the same time, and that’s what I’m. I’m gonna do, I, it has been very much one niche for one year and figured that out, and then the next niche for the next year.

[00:59:41] And I think that’s okay as a business because you can pivot between different niches. As long as you have got all of those elements, you’ve understood your market incredibly well and work very hard towards messaging that market and, and attracting those clients. It’s okay to pivot in your niche [01:00:00] and have two niches if you’ve done one, two extreme, if you’ve done one where you’ve covered all, all the, the bases of marketing to them.

[01:00:09] Absolutely. I love that. So your client, um, was surprised that you did all these things. What were some of those things that he was surprised that you did? I think it was the, how much I. I think what the, the strategy [01:00:30] session often does, and this is just a byproduct what, what the strategy session does for me.

[01:00:35] It helps me create a vision, but for them, it helps them get real clarity about that vision, who they’re trying to attract, how to talk to that audience, just through the questions that I ask. And a lot of it is just digging deep into who they are, asking lots of questions, getting them to explain their vision, getting them, and he’s a, a disruptor in his industry.

[01:00:58] He’s got lots of [01:01:00] really big ideas and I. Hearing him talk about that, but then also hearing him talk about his story, which is actually a very powerful story. I’m not gonna tell you what it is because I think it needs to come from him and maybe maybe another podcast on, on your show. But, but he had a very powerful story.

[01:01:18] But that story helped me understand his personality and who he is and how he got from, from that story to where he is today. And so that [01:01:30] created that vision for me. It also helped him clarify the vision for himself and what he was trying to create and where he was trying to go. Because I think with your brand, you almost need to eat live, sleep your brand, you know, all your decisions need to be aligned with your brand or your marketing needs to be aligned with your brand or your imagery, whatever you you’re putting out into the world.

[01:01:53] And so I think having that clarity was very powerful for him. And then I think the second element was. [01:02:00] Was getting him excited about the visuals we could create. And that was all done through mo mood boarding, um, and giving him an idea of what look and feels were possible for his business. And so when we did that mood board element, he was like, wow, I can see how this is gonna look.

[01:02:20] I can, I can visualize now. And for, for people, I think creatives and or a lot of the clients I work with are creative. So they do have that visual element, but some of them are [01:02:30] not. And I think having them see that gets them really excited about the journey. And with photography, which can feel quite scary because you’re gonna have a camera in your face, having that excitement of, if I do this, if I’m courageous enough to stick my face in front of a camera, I’m going to get this amazing imagery that’s aligned with my vision and where I’m trying to get to.

[01:02:54] And so I think for him it just built that excitement and it gave him real clarity. [01:03:00] I love that. And you’re doing it together. You’re feeding off of what he is. One other thing I love about what you, and he might say to me, I don’t like this image. ’cause some, I’m showing him, uh, maybe four or five different look or feels.

[01:03:14] And then I’m saying to him, what resonates with you? Like, what, what do you love about this image? What don’t you love about that image? And so then I’m really understanding what, what he likes and who he is, and then how we [01:03:30] could take that and create his own unique look and feel. So I think like he could go, he goes, uh, what I hate about this is everybody looks really crazy.

[01:03:38] They’re all screaming and shouting. It’s over the top, you know? But what I like about it is I like, I like the color, I like the tone, you know, so you can see there’ll be different elements. So I like the, the, the, the angle of the images. So it’s just understanding what they like and what they don’t like, and then collaborating to take that vision in my head, take the vision in their [01:04:00] head, take their ideal clients, and then smush it all together into their, their unique look and feel.

[01:04:07] diane: One other thing I’m hearing is that you’re giving them an opportunity to tell you what they don’t like. Yes. And I think that maybe we don’t do that enough of saying, Hey, I don’t expect you to like all these. I really need to know what you don’t like or don’t resonate with. And the things that you do, could you pick out and tell me?

[01:04:26] Mm-Hmm. And I think that, I think that that is [01:04:30] something that you’re doing that, uh, we all could be doing more of. Um, I know we’re outta time, so I wanted to ask, um, I had something else on the tip of my tongue that I wanted to share, but I can’t remember what it was. Um, um, I think we’ve answered lots of it, but I.

[01:04:49] Oh, I know what it was. One of the things that I love about our collaboration is that I am, I always get nervous, John is always like, how many times do you have [01:05:00] to pee before you talk to Pippa? And I’m like, well, I just am nervous and I just want it to be good. And it always is good. Pippa’s happy, I’m just saying this, but she always encourages know Diane.

[01:05:10] Pippa Tanko: I feel the same way when I’m having a meeting with Tom and Cole or I’m having a meeting with one of my clients that, that I really respect. And I think, you know, I think that sometimes that imposter syndrome comes in a little bit. Someone said something really cool today. She said, imposter syndrome just shows you that there’s something you’re [01:05:30] really excited about and I took, and you care, care.

[01:05:32] diane: I want to do a good job for you. You wanna do a good job for Tom and call. And I think that there’s something really good. But somebody asked me and they were like, well, what do you like of best about working with Pippa? And I said. She trusts me and I know she trusts me because when I say, Hey, let’s, this is why we’re doing this.

[01:05:54] I’d like to try this to see. And I feel like if I go back to all my clients and what has [01:06:00] worked and what has helped them, like catapult for the bi for their business is when they’ve allowed me to try some things allowed, um, and, and trusted in me, in, in things that we’ve done. I have a inkling about something or I’ve done my research.

[01:06:18] I haven’t been able to try it. Now I’m the patterns is the thing for you. This is the thing I’ve tried and I, I know I’ve seen it. I haven’t seen a lot of other people outside of the pattern industry use it on their website. But I [01:06:30] think that it’s something for me. I’m definitely gonna be incorporating it, but I love that you.

[01:06:36] Trust me in the strategy. You trust me. And, but I also feel like it’s okay for me to say, that doesn’t work for me. That doesn’t feel right for me, that doesn’t feel on brand for me. I’m not sure about that pattern. And I think you’ve been very vocal in going, I don’t mind if you love it or you hate it.

[01:06:53] Pippa Tanko: Right. I just you to tell me. And that’s very similar to how I work with my clients because I would [01:07:00] rather get it right. And a and and create something you love than do something and you’re like, oh, actually when they’re delivered, when she’s delivered it, I’m going to go and change that element because Right.

[01:07:11] I, I, that’s what I noticed when you were saying today, you were like, I think you’re giving them an opportunity. And I feel like I do that too, but you definitely have done that with me and I felt like I can say, Hey, that pattern isn’t working there for me right now. So, and it doesn’t hurt my feelings. Hey, I’ve just had fun.

[01:07:28] diane: Make, now I get to [01:07:30] make another pattern. You know, like, yeah. Yeah. It, it doesn’t, um. It’s good, it’s clarity. I think. So anyway, I want people to know how you can, um, and Doc says he loves that take on imposter syndrome. So, um, the one thing Pippa gets to do is she gets to choose a winner. Um, this is our final winner.

[01:07:52] Well, I think we have, I’ll choose one more for, for the rest of this week, I guess. Um, I’ll pick one out. I have, uh, four [01:08:00] winners already. Now. This is, or I have three winners. I have, I will have five total and you’ll get art supplies people and it’s just gonna be fun stuff. And you get some cards to send some people to love on them.

[01:08:12] ’cause this is love on designers. It could be love on creatives, you know. Um, so I’m gonna share Pippa’s, uh, uh, her links so you can find her on instagram@andpip.co uk. Um, on LinkedIn at Pippa Tanko. [01:08:30] Brand photographer. All these are at the very top, whether you’re on, uh, wherever you get your podcast, but also right under if you’re watching this on YouTube.

[01:08:38] Um, and then this site, it has, it has under construction, um, it’s and pip do co do uk. That, uh, is the one that will be released in March, and I know March starts Friday. Uh, it’s not gonna be released on Friday, but I am really gonna work on it over spring break and I really hope that we’re close in March.

[01:08:57] It will release. Um, so Pippa, [01:09:00] I want you to tell me when to stop and I am just going wherever. I’m just scrolling up and down in the chat. So if anybody wants to, to try and, um, get, uh, something, some fun, artsy things, just type in the chat and then you tell me when to stop and I will stop. Okay. So how does it work?

[01:09:20] Pippa Tanko: Do you then choose the person at the top? No, I choose, um, wherever my mouse is scrolling. Oh, wherever it lands. So wherever you say [01:09:30] stop, then I stop. And if it’s on me, then I go to the person below me. Nice. Okay. I’m gonna not look at the chat and I’m gonna let you do it. Okay. I’m doing it so you can’t see mine.

[01:09:44] diane: Oh, okay. Carrie says she wants art supplies. Well, hopefully you get it, Carrie. All right. Are you ready? I’m Randy. Stop. Brian. Y Okay. I know Brian’s, um, uh, so Brian [01:10:00] Yan is the winner for, um, the live one. So Pippa, thank you for doing this. Thank you for letting me be your web designer and letting me play and.

[01:10:12] Explore. Well, thank you for all your hard work and, you know, helping me get real clarity on all the things that I, that I need to make my web website sing. And I wouldn’t have worked with anybody else. Well, I’m really glad I can’t wait. One day I’m gonna hug your neck. And I know. Can’t wait. I can’t wait.

[01:10:29] Pippa Tanko: I’m [01:10:30] definitely, we are gonna, we’re gonna do it. I’m, it’s in the, it’s in the plans. It’s in the plans. We’ll be teary even. I think. I know. I think so. I think we will be, although with me that’s not that difficult. ’cause you know, I’m a cry. I know, but it’s, it’s always, it’s always good to, um, be able to have people that.

[01:10:49] diane: We can, we can cry with and we can, um, learn from and grow with. And just to make sure everybody knows, you can always [01:11:00] support Doc and Julie, um, in giving to, um, I have the link. I am trying to find it. Anyway, I’ve gotta go to a different page. Anyway, doc. Put it in the thing. Um, but I want to just, uh, Julie is Doc’s wife, and Julie’s an awesome artist.

[01:11:21] She’s a photographer. She does a lot of amazing art. You would love her too. Um, but she is, has cancer again, and [01:11:30] we always are supporting and I always think it’s good. We can’t all pay for everything, so we ha there’s a GoFundMe and you can si you can give $10 even, um, just to help. The Save the tatas again.

[01:11:46] So if you would like to, I’m gonna put this in the chat, but you can go to GoFundMe, um, gofundme.com/f. I don’t know why f like Frank, but don’t write Frank. It’s just f slash [01:12:00] save the a sen again, because this is her second time dealing with it. And we just want her to just be that survivor and they have four girls.

[01:12:14] So I, and I just love them both. So we’re gonna save the tatas. If you wanna anything give anything, it’s right there link. And that’ll also be under Pippa’s link. So Pippa, thank you so much for today and I’ll see you of course on Monday. [01:12:30] And, um, everybody else, I won’t be here next week. Um, but I will be here the following three weeks and we’re gonna be diving into, um.

[01:12:40] The stuff that I’m teaching in my grad class on stories that stick. So it’s not all stories that stick, but I’m gonna be teaching. So they’ll hopefully be a little shorter. And then at the end of those three weeks, we’re gonna do a on air workshop. And I don’t know if I’ll be recording it or not because I want y’all to have flexibility [01:13:00] to be open and honest.

[01:13:01] So thank you Pippa, for doing this with me. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Nice to see you everyone. Alright. I’ll see y’all next. Nope, in two weeks. In two weeks. Oh, there’s some floater. Alright, but Pippa, I’ll see You’all Monday. Alright, see you Monday. Bye [01:13:30] y’all.