Episode 422 aired on Wed, Nov. 2, 2022
Are you a Template reviser? Or do you start from scratch? Which of these feeds your anxiety and which one is the place where you flourish? Or is your process something else?
In all my self investigation this summer a conversation that my friend Mario and I had about our process has come up in my mind again and again.
I have thought a lot about my process and how it has changed over the years. Things I have learned and as a result of trying things I have either adopted new steps or clung harder to my tried and true processes.
Mario and I are going to return to this conversation and share how our processes have changed. We specifically talked about how Mario would start a notion project and how I was doing it. It actually was interesting and made me realize I start lots of things in a similar manner.
How does your process evolve?
What is a must have in your creative process?
Do you start by looking at what already exists or do you prefer to start from scratch? AND WHY?
I hope you will join us live, Wednesday, NOV 2, 2022 at 2:30pm ET / 6:30pm GMT / 11:30am PT / 8:30am in Hawaii.
Oh and don’t forget to sign up and start #Imaginember and exercise your imagination for 30+ days! Sign up here.
or Listen here
[00:00:00] diane: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of, I was about to say design recharge. It used to be called Design Recharge, but now it’s called Creative Ignite. And um, uh, Mario was one of the people who helped me to do the rethinking about the name. And we, I agree that creatives ignite is definitely more clearer.
[00:00:24] So anyway, I’m glad everybody’s saying hey, in the chat if you’re not joining us live. Just so you know, you can [00:00:30] always join us live. And I’m joined today by my friend Mario. He’s gonna say his last name cuz I’ve known him for, since 2018. And I’ve always said it wrong. He never told me until recently that I was saying it wrong, so I don’t say it anymore.
[00:00:45] I can spell it fast though. Just tell him how, tell him who you are and what you do.
[00:00:51] Mario Quezada: Uh, my name is Mario Cassada. Uh, I am a brand strategist and content developer for nonprofits [00:01:00] and mission based companies and personal brands. Um, and I am currently in Hawaii.
[00:01:07] diane: Where In Hawaii? Today.
[00:01:10] Mario Quezada: Uh, today I, I’m in Kaha, which is, uh, I’m at my mom’s house today.
[00:01:15] Cause Wednesday mornings I usually have my kids, so, hey, take.
[00:01:19] diane: Okay, cool. Okay. But today we’re gonna talk about process. So Mario and I meet every week, and Mario, we were talking about, we, I was trying to get ready for taxes. My mom’s gonna be like, [00:01:30] oh, great, here we go. So I waited until October to do my, our taxes.
[00:01:35] So John, my husband, has his own business. I have my own business and it takes a long time, and I’m like, not again. So I was like, Mario, I’m going to use Notion. And Amy Lynn, who’s here from Napa, California, she was like, oh my goodness, I love Notion. And she has helped me a lot and Mario’s helped me and I’m sure I need more help.
[00:01:58] But Mario and I have this [00:02:00] conversation, and this is why I wanted to have this. I really felt like, um, process was something that I really wanted to, uh, talk about from here until December. And I was like, when he said this to me, I was like, At first it was like the little kid in me that was like, I am not cool.
[00:02:17] I am not doing it right. Cuz here’s what it was. , I, I, I know you don’t even know where. So I didn’t tell him about the story that I had in my head about what he had said or what, what hap happened. It was really fast cuz [00:02:30] everything’s fast in my head. So what happened was, I’m like, okay, I’m gonna use Notion to do my taxes.
[00:02:36] And I had watched a couple videos and my friend Amy Lynn had helped me some and Mario does a lot of stuff in Notion. So I was like, Hey, what do you think about this? And he’s like, Diane, why don’t you just use a template? And I was like, whoa. He’s like, why’d you do that? You always start from scratch. I think he’s thinking about how I build websites or you know, everything.
[00:02:56] Like I start from scratch. Do you remember this? [00:03:00] Yeah, I do. Okay. So the conversation I was thinking Mario was having in his. In my head, um, was you’re a dummy, Diane, that you’re not just, I know you’re not. I know that wasn’t what you were thinking, but that is like that old story of like, oh crap, I’m not enough.
[00:03:17] I’m not doing it. Right. Right. But I realized it was just Mario. I know he loves me and I, he’s only just wanting the best, but we are different. Um, we are just different. And I was like, [00:03:30] oh, no. And he asked me this question. He said, why don’t you just use a template? Why don’t you just go get a template from somebody?
[00:03:39] Right. Do you wanna tell them?
[00:03:41] Mario Quezada: Uh, yeah. I mean, it’s basically what you’re saying. I, I asked her, why don’t you just find a template that does exactly what you need it to do and start there because someone else has already worked out all the hard things that you’re, you’re trying to make happen. And my [00:04:00] heart behind it was, You’re, you’re making it much harder on yourself and you take so much longer to get to where you want to get to, to solve the problem that you’re trying to solve.
[00:04:11] That 20,000 people have solved already in, in templates template form somewhere. And my question was, why don’t you use a template to get catapult you towards your finish line faster? But that’s not the way [00:04:30] Diane’s brain works. So I obviously offended her. No,
[00:04:33] diane: no. You didn’t have been you . No, but that if that could have gone to that place and been like, I’m not enough.
[00:04:42] Um, but I didn’t because I feel comfortable enough with Mario. He’s like a brother from another mother, so I feel like I can be like, no. And I know he uses templates for things like in Notion or you know, like, but I told him and he asked me, and instead of just [00:05:00] blurting out an answer I said, I said, I don’t know.
[00:05:04] And then I thought about it and I was like, oh, I do know. , they’re overwhelming to me, and I don’t, then I feel like there’s all these buttons, there’s all these things, and I don’t know which lever to push or button to pull or whatever. You know, that button to pull. See, I don’t even, it’s a lever to pull a button to push and I feel overwhelmed.
[00:05:27] And I think, and maybe that ADHD brain [00:05:30] possibly, but it’s just, that’s just the way my brain works. Whether you have ADHD or not. It just, everybody’s brain works differently. It didn’t feel like a catapult forward. It actually, uh, puts blockers up and makes me not wanna do it. And so I’ve done my taxes by hand.
[00:05:47] Yes, I use a calculator, but you have all these receipts people, it’s not like you’re at the checkout line. You’re like, let me go ahead and put this into my notion form. Right. Nobody’s doing that. Right. You still have [00:06:00] receipts, so it’s not, people are, Yeah. Yeah. Some people aren’t that good. That is not me clearly.
[00:06:05] But my goal is just to do it every week or every month and get things in a more, but putting it online so I don’t have to add it up, you know, as so it can add it up. So, which this is a good tool, I can do that. Um, but I realize that it was just too much. And I do, I actually start lots of things like this and I thought, oh, you know, even like [00:06:30] as I teach a class or if you’re creating a course or you, we have these things that are like our go-tos.
[00:06:37] Things that will catapult Mario forward actually are holding me back and they don’t catapult me and I don’t need to feel bad about it. And I actually don’t feel bad about it. I don’t think Mario’s right. And I don’t think I’m right. I’m just thinking Mario’s right for Mario and I’m right for me. And so to me I thought that was a really.
[00:06:57] Um, it stuck with me clearly. [00:07:00] Mario was like, we’re gonna talk about what we’re gonna, I don’t even know this story you’re talking about, but it has stayed with me because I was, I was comfortable enough to say, no, I don’t wanna do that. And I, he gave me enough time to think about what it was that makes me so uncomfortable with a template.
[00:07:17] And I just feel like I don’t, I’m not smart enough. Uh, I don’t, and I know I am, but it makes me, it puts the brakes on, and for you, it gives you extra nitrogen or [00:07:30] nitrous oxide or whatever it is. Right.
[00:07:33] Mario Quezada: I think, yeah, I think from, if you wanna go to, to kinda old stories or, or kind of like origin stories for ourselves.
[00:07:41] Like I’m, I’ve always been a kid that has found the coolest thing and then broken it apart to figure out how it works. Right. And then I’ll put it back together. Mostly, you know, with all the parts and, and make it better [00:08:00] or, or change it somehow. So I’ve always been that kid. So like my dad hated getting like really nice remote control cars for me and stuff like that.
[00:08:07] Cause I would like take stuff apart and put different batteries on it to make me go way faster and burn out the motors. So I was like, my thing’s always been like, let me find something that’s doing basically the job that I needed to do and then I’m gonna supercharge it. And so I realized that, that that’s not the way everybody works.
[00:08:25] Right. And I understand, like, you know, talking to Diane, um, my process is [00:08:30] different because I’m looking for, I’m always looking for a quick solution that will get me what I need and then I will, knowing, knowing that I. Mess with things. I know, I know enough tech stuff to get me very much in trouble. And so I, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll look at stuff, I’ll look at the math, I’ll look at how everything works.
[00:08:52] I was doing this last night actually, and then I will, I will engineer it to do exactly what I wanted to do, which [00:09:00] is, which is like a, like a supercharged version of what it was before, but a template to Diane. Right. You just become overwhelmed with all the stuff that you’re just like, oh, I don’t know where to put stuff.
[00:09:12] I don’t know what to do with this stuff. Even if there’s a, even if there’s a walkthrough like video Yeah, video on it and like she just, she shuts down because she feels like if she didn’t do it, then she doesn’t know how to make it work. Right. And I, and I, [00:09:30] I think, I think what I was, when I said, why do you always do this?
[00:09:34] I was talking about like, and, and I wasn’t, it wasn’t, it wasn’t to be mean. I was No, no, no. I was very, I was very curious. Diane knows me enough to, to, to know that, but I was very curious because I noticed that when she builds websites or when she does certain things in, um, the tech space, she always tries to build it from scratch, even though there’s a thousand things out there that will do [00:10:00] exactly what she needs immediately.
[00:10:02] Um, she, she feels like she has to build it from the ground up because she, but, but it’s because she wants to know how everything works together. Um, and it’s her like curious nature, but also just her learning the way she learns.
[00:10:18] diane: Doc had a great point. So he says, I struggle with templates as well. I struggle with understanding how it works like I do, but also feeling like I’m selling someone else’s work as my own.
[00:10:29] Oh [00:10:30] yes. This can be really, so for mo web or motion templates especially, but Doc, it, doc made that hop Scotch poster back there and Doc is an amazing illustrator, amazing designer. And I would say, well just, you know, I now you know how to use things. I think, um, to get your life is gonna be put in there by your illustration and your typography and your design.
[00:10:59] [00:11:00] But the way it moves, you didn’t design, but if somebody asked you, did you do this? You would probably say no. And it’s just gonna take a whole lot longer I think. What do you think about that, Mario? I.
[00:11:13] Mario Quezada: As far as like ownership of, of final product or
[00:11:16] diane: feeling guilty about using something, uh, like, like Doc was saying.
[00:11:23] Mario Quezada: So we’ll take this back to like early career for me. Okay. Right. I started in the [00:11:30] web when the web was barely the web. Right. And you know, this beard makes me look a little older than I am, but I’ve been doing design for 25, 26 years, so 26 years now. And so when I started in design, um, I started on the internet with disney.com and they only had like 500 employees at that time.
[00:11:53] And Disney’s since turned. You know, thousands and thousands of employees, whatever. Um, but we [00:12:00] were, I was around when the, the first time when animated gifts came around and we were like, oh, whoa, crazy, you know, pictures that kind of do have frames and stuff like that. And then I, I remember the day that jpeg was, was, was released the, the jpeg compression algorithm, the thing.
[00:12:17] And we were like, whoa, photos look like photos now. That’s crazy. And so our whole thing at that time was hack it together and make it different. Right. [00:12:30] And it was always like, okay, what do we have available? Let’s make something new from that. And so I think of a lot of that stuff as, um, and I’ll, I’ll tell you, there’s, there’s two, two ways I think about it.
[00:12:42] I’m never gonna sell somebody’s somebody else’s stuff as my own, because obviously I didn’t make it right. But I’m not doing that for. Um, like, I don’t, I don’t do a lot of websites because, um, a, it’s just not my, it’s not my thing. I’ve designed websites for [00:13:00] years and, um, it just doesn’t even bring me a huge satisfaction at the end of the day.
[00:13:04] Right. I can do it, I just don’t like it. Um, but if I were to design a website and I were to, I were to have a client and they’re like, oh, we can only spend this much. I’m like, okay, well, what we’re gonna do is we’re just gonna buy a template and we’re gonna fulfill it. And so, like, I’m already telling them we’re gonna buy a template and then I’ll modify it for you.
[00:13:23] So I don’t, I don’t pass anything off with that. That’s not mine. Um, uh, but that, but [00:13:30] if you, if you think about it, like everything that we do as designers and, and, and creative people, we take what we see or we find and we create something new with it. And that transition process. In my mind is way more than enough to, to call it my own whatever, really, whatever it is, right?
[00:13:52] So in that, in that instance, I would, I would change enough of everything to make [00:14:00] it my own. This is my design. I may have started with a template, but this is my design, right? Um, and then the other part of it is when I start with a template, what I’m able to do is, again, I reverse engineer everything so I know exactly how everything works.
[00:14:16] And then from that, from that framework of how everything works, I can create new things with the process of how it works. So I’m not just taking the template. Just handing it over. [00:14:30] I’m taking the process of the template, I’m looking at it, I’m deconstructing it, and then I’m creating new and different things with the process that I learned of how that template’s working or, or whatever it is.
[00:14:41] Right. And it could be, could be a, a math thing from, from, you know, Google forms or whatever. Um, so I, I hope that answers your question. Does that, does that make sense?
[00:14:53] diane: Yeah, I think so. So I’m, I’m gonna give another example of template. So, um, lots of houses are the same. I [00:15:00] know Paul lives in a, in a old, old house.
[00:15:03] It’s beautiful. He’s taken me on a tour, I mean a internet Zoom tour. But it’s awesome. And, um, and I know lots of houses are built the same. You know, they have like, there, there are like, uh, there were sort of templates. You can have House a, house B, or house C, right? And then, so there’s very standard things.
[00:15:23] We kind of know what’s behind the store because. A lot of houses are built sim similarly, but once you [00:15:30] start putting your stuff in there and deciding how to decorate it, it becomes yours. Whoever lives in Paul’s house after Paul will make it not like Paul. They won’t be like, oh, this is Paul’s house still, you know it, they’re not gonna have all of Paul’s stuff.
[00:15:45] Right. I kind of think that we do make it, we can adjust it, but I think what I wouldn’t do that Mario does is break it apart to see how it works. I actually need to start from building it from, [00:16:00] um, from zero to, to know how it works because I’m, uh, just built differently. Um, I don’t know if the house thing was a good analogy or not, but I do understand about it feeling wrong, and I agree.
[00:16:14] Paul said it sort of feels wrong if it’s not mine. But here’s where I, for so many years, I would’ve never illustrated anything and I would’ve always bought illustration, or I would’ve hired an illustrator. I would’ve never said it was [00:16:30] mine. I would’ve been like, oh, well I hired Doc Reed is gonna do the illustration, and this is this.
[00:16:34] So then this becomes a collaboration. Same thing with you, Mario, when you said, Hey, if a client doesn’t have a lot of money, we’re gonna just do a template because you don’t have probably the the time for something where they don’t have the funds for something completely custom. So you’re trying to give them, to get them to their end goal of whatever it is, a brochure or website or whatever.
[00:16:57] Um, but if they needed illustration, you [00:17:00] know, that’s gonna be something you could do. But Doc could probably do faster. You’re never gonna come across and be like, oh yes, I did this and you didn’t do it. Doc did it. Doc did the illustration, you did the design. So I think some of that is just. . Um, Saying that, being able to say that.
[00:17:21] I also think there are some times where you have created a template yourself. So I do this in web design. I have certain, I don’t know, it’s like a [00:17:30] flex box now, like a container or a row. Mom, if you don’t know what I’m talking about, it’s just like a row on the, I just have a blank row that I repeat and it’s a template.
[00:17:39] So I’ve made my own template for my clients. I’ve made my own template for me, and I’ve made like my starter template that has like my headings, you know, H one, H two, H three, so I can see what a paragraph looks like. I, so I can kind of start, so I’m not starting from scratch, but I made it myself. Are there some out there?
[00:17:57] Absolutely. I’m sure I could have found one for [00:18:00] free, but that takes more time than it was for me to just build it myself. But I’ve made my own template. I think it’s what we put into it. It’s the words we put into it. Template. It’s the images we put into an email template. Um, if you’re using somebody else’s words, then it’s not really authentic or coming from you.
[00:18:19] Um, in the same way with like a template, a Canva template, a bridge says templates have become so pervasive. Absolutely. We provide campaigns in [00:18:30] Canva. My Emma templates are far, so, so far our custom, I have more of a problem with the 500 plus people I that, that you, she works with at a university. Um, using them poorly and in the end result is terrible.
[00:18:44] My sense is that they also consider themselves designers with no experience or education. And I had a conversation, I can’t remember who I was talking to about this. I think it was just some of my design friends this week. And we were saying, you know, people will say, oh, well can you [00:19:00] teach me? Can you just go ahead and teach me how to use your indig?
[00:19:03] Or you know, can you just teach me? And I’m like, Um, you know, I could try, but, you know, I went to five years of school for this and I’ve had 25 years of knowledge of using this every day. Um, it’s not just so easy. And I also wanna just say, oh, are you a, do you have a computer? And if they say yes, I’m like, oh, do you have a keyboard?
[00:19:27] And if they say yes, I’m like, oh, so you’re a [00:19:30] writer. How many books have you written? That’s what I wanna say, because it’s like, oh, you have the tool, then you must be a writer, or you must be something else. Right? Um, but this is just a tool. What we have, what we can do, what we can design, what DOT can do isn’t what’s easy for Mario isn’t easy for me, um, with branding or, or in strategy or content creation, but there are other things that I’m good at and.
[00:19:58] Anyway, I don’t know where I’m going at the end. , [00:20:00]
[00:20:02] Mario Quezada: I’m gonna pose this question to everybody and it’s a, it’s a, it’s a now kind of pseudo famous, uh, illustration that, that someone gave. But, um, in school, this instructor, right, this instructor came to, uh, another instructor and said, oh my gosh. Like, I just found out that one of my students, um, paid a designer to do, [00:20:30] to do the work.
[00:20:30] And they handed it in, um, as their finished piece and the other, and the other instructor said, uh, wow, that’s really, that’s really ingen, that’s really kind of ingenious. And the instructor that was, um, kind of appalled or like, what do you mean? And he is like, well, as a creative director, that’s what we do.
[00:20:56] Right. And, and his point was, [00:21:00] are we training our, are we training these kids to get the job done? Are we training them to do it themselves? What’s, what are we training them to do? And so there’s a different, there’s a disparity of, of what the end goal is, right? And so Christo gave that example, and it was, it was a, it was a person at, at art center and Chris said, if, if I, if that person was in my class, I would’ve given him an a plus.
[00:21:27] And, and the reason was [00:21:30] because he is like, he’s like, I want someone who can gather the pieces, art, direct, creative, direct, make it all happen and make it, make it exactly what they need it to be. He’s like, that kind of thinking is way more valuable to me than a designer who spends mindless hours and gets it almost kind of there, right?
[00:21:49] And so, The, the, the point I’m making is like everybody, everybody’s got a different process for, for where they are and in the, in the chain of the final piece. [00:22:00] Right? Um, does Diane putting a website together with docs, illustrations and, and this person’s design over here and, and, you know, and the end, maybe, maybe a lot of the structure of the website was hers.
[00:22:13] But the final piece was actually an amalgamation of a lot of different people and, and pieces that she was in charge of creating, directing. Uh, she was in charge of creative directing it, art, directing, making sure all the pieces. She’s producing it, right? So at the end of the day, that is her work [00:22:30] 100%.
[00:22:30] Because she put all the pieces together. No one else did that. So her mind was able to do that, right? And so as a creative director, and I’ve been a creative for a long time, my job is always to train up designers, make ’em, help ’em think better. And then put all the pieces together from words to emotion, to di design, to imagery, to structure and make it a cohesive piece.[00:23:00]
[00:23:00] And that’s, that’s always been my job. So that’s why I think of, I, I can think of process and templates in different way because I’m always thinking of a much bigger picture. How can I get the desired result, the quickest and the most efficient as I can, um, with using as many pieces that are available to me or even people that are available to me that can do exactly what I need them to do.
[00:23:25] Right. So, um, yeah, so that, that was just, that was just something that was coming to my mind as, [00:23:30] as I was, as I was
[00:23:31] diane: listening to you. Well, I think, and Doc says the training to be an art director was only developed after leaving school. The focus in school was all on the craft. I would’ve failed the kid who paid the per if, unless that was part of the thing.
[00:23:42] They have to show that they can do it. But, but that is something to think about. And I think Maria and I didn’t we talk about, I don’t remember. Anyway, clearly I have a lot of conversations with you in my head and you’re not there. So, um, but we were talking, I think about, um, [00:24:00] uh, anyway, I can’t remember. It just went away.
[00:24:03] Um, it doesn’t matter. I’m gonna go onto what Dustin said. Dustin said, isn’t everything built on a template in a way? Um, what do you think to that?
[00:24:14] Mario Quezada: I don’t think so. I, I don’t think everything’s built on a template, but as we move forward in time, So many people are producing so many things, right? There’s nothing new under the sun, right?
[00:24:29] There’s [00:24:30] really nothing new. Like there’s only a certain amount of story arcs that can actually possibly be, be created because they’ve all been created already, right? And so you, you have to understand like, um, not everything is probably a template, but isn’t the gathering of multiple things together a new thing?
[00:24:56] Mm-hmm. . And that’s the way I think about it, right? So it’s like, how can I create [00:25:00] something new out of, out of everything that I have available to me? And that’s, that’s what I want to do. I want to, I wanna constantly create and move forward creating new things. And if it’s something that I feel like I can create by myself, awesome.
[00:25:15] Right? But at this point, I’m looking for efficiency and execution and excellence that, um, that I want to happen faster, right? Than, than for me. Like, like, okay, I have to create, now I [00:25:30] have to create a whole new template. This has to look different than my other clients. I won’t use anything that I’ve created before.
[00:25:35] Like I just, I just piled on years of work onto myself and basically I’m saying, forget what you know, and do it all from scratch. And for me, that, that puts me back. That, that makes me, that makes me unthink things and kind of, it, it retards my, my moving forward because I’m not able [00:26:00] to look at everything that’s available.
[00:26:02] And utilize the, the knowledge and things that people have brought to the table before me, and step on that and move forward from there. I’m actually climbing down the mountain and saying, okay, well, I know I’ve walked, I know I’ve, I’ve cleaned this mountain a few different ways. I’m gonna climb it this way now and see if it, if I can get there the same way, but I’m like, actually making won’t work for myself.
[00:26:22] So for me, it doesn’t make.
[00:26:25] diane: Well, it’s also like if you’re climbing the mountain and the next time you put on a different kind of [00:26:30] shoes, and then every time, if you’re really trying to be efficient and effective with your client, if you’re always doing something new, then how do you know if it’s gonna work?
[00:26:40] So there is some things, but it’s not like every single one of your client uses the same typeface or the same. That’s not what we’re talking about. But it’s that there is a system and you’re really good at creating systems. You’re really good at creating frameworks that all have spelled out words together.
[00:26:56] I am not good at that. He’ll be like, it’s team let’s, [00:27:00] it’s the T and the E and the A and the M, whatever. I don’t know. Mario has all these, like, they’re always, it always minks some sort of name. I remember what it was that we were talking about. We were talking about my seniors, I think. I think he has a, there’s a rooster over there.
[00:27:15] Um, did you know that also chickens will crow if they’re, if there’s not a male with them, they’ll be like, they try to, Crow Ma had one. And she, I would be like, oh girl, you can keep trying, but you don’t have the lungs that that [00:27:30] rooster does. So it could be a chicken,
[00:27:33] Mario Quezada: keep tracking. What were you saying before
[00:27:35] diane: the rooster?
[00:27:35] Yeah. Okay. So it was about the, um, um, the school project and we had talked about like what did, what was I trying to get them to do and what were the learning objectives and um, like building a portfolio or whatever. And I said, that’s also about learning to work in a team. And he said when he was in school, Mario said, when he was in school, he, there was a project where they actually had to come up with something [00:28:00] and then each person had.
[00:28:02] A something to design. And they all had to contribute. So they had to say, Hey, you’re gonna make this illustration for me and you’re gonna do this for me. And then you had to put it into something. And they did awesome. And it was really amazing. And I think that if we did have something like that in school that Doc was saying I didn’t have any art direction, I didn’t have any creative direction.
[00:28:23] Um, if we had more of that, I think that that might help us get to a better place [00:28:30] in as we start, um, a job. But I also feel like there’s so much to learn that it’s like, I don’t think as a professor, we don’t really talk about that part. We barely talk about the business side sometimes. And so there’s, it’s kind of like, well, let’s just throw something up and try to do it.
[00:28:51] I think with art direction, In school, it can be a little sticky, you know, cuz it would be like, oh well Mario, he likes [00:29:00] impact. You know, like that type face. I don’t, I don’t know if you really like that type face, but you know, you’d be like, oh man, I do not wanna have impact in my portfolio. You know? And then kids get, um, sensitive I guess to what somebody else did.
[00:29:15] Doc made this thing and now this is, you know, I mean, I don’t, they, in my classes, they can’t do any illustration if they didn’t do it themselves. They can’t buy an illustration and put it in because it is, when they go out into the world, they’re usually [00:29:30] not saying, um, doc Reed says one of his first projects was using Impact.
[00:29:35] My mom’s like, what is this impact? It’s just really, I know you’ve seen that typeface mom that’s thin typeface. I think it’s pretty terrible. I’m, I’ll point it out to you and I’ll send you something in Impact Mom later today. I mean, it’s just overused. The end. It’s
[00:29:53] Mario Quezada: an old, it’s an old tape. Um, but yeah. Uh, one of the things I, I think going back to [00:30:00] what your, your, your illustration with, with your class was like, we need to assess like, what’s the objective?
[00:30:07] Is the objective for me to do everything or to get my project done for my client? That’s, that’s, that’s what the, that for me, like, I’m always trying to think of what’s the best way I can service my client and is the best way me illustrating everything and, and doing every tiny thing, because that would take [00:30:30] years of work.
[00:30:30] Right. Right. Or is the best way to source all the best stuff for my client that, that they can, that they can afford and bring it all together in a much new and refreshing way. I think that’s my job. Right. Right. And so in school, We aren’t teaching? Well, it depends on what you, you’re in school for. Are you in school to learn how to be an illustrator?
[00:30:55] Okay. Then why would you buy illustration? That’s, that’s, that’s kind of counterintuitive. If you’re learning how [00:31:00] to do a craft, there’s different sides to art school, right? Learning how to do the craft and be the craft maker, right? But then there’s also the other side of like, uh, art direction. Like are you learning how to direct the craft and, and combine the elements to make something amazing, right?
[00:31:21] I think we, we, we, we convolute and we make things a little gray there. Or we think, Hey, designers, you have to do everything. That’s actually not true. [00:31:30] We’re, I think we’re, we’re, we’re hamstringing them right? In school, if you’re learning design, yeah, of course. Like you have to do your typography if you’re in a typography class.
[00:31:39] But if the class is to art direct something mm-hmm. and the class is about art direction. Then isn’t it even more maybe, um, isn’t it even more impressive that someone actually took initiative and paid people to bring the [00:32:00] best things together and art direct and actually art direct piece when everybody else is actually just designing?
[00:32:07] diane: Yeah, no, I, I, yeah. I think that I don’t, I know that every kid doesn’t have a camera. Every kid isn’t great with a, with photography. They do have to have a photography component in one of these projects. I didn’t say that they had to take the photo, but they can’t use a mockup because I want them to art direct.
[00:32:28] But like one of [00:32:30] my kids, Lauren, she’s a great photographer. I’m like, I didn’t say y’all couldn’t pay Lauren to shoot your photos, but you better be their art directing it, Don. Lauren Art Direct, she just knows how to use the camera better and can get down or do things. And she has the equipment and she understands how to use it better than maybe somebody does.
[00:32:51] But Dustin has a great point. If he had hired Clark or who’s a great designer to design something for him, or like Doc Reed [00:33:00] and he hired Clark because he wanted Clark’s design. Um, if he, if Dustin’s saying he would be, he wouldn’t feel like he was getting what he paid for if Clark had, um, not done it for him.
[00:33:17] And I think that, that this is can be a real squirrely area, but this is when, if it’s the Clark or design company, I don’t think that’s the name of his company because I think [00:33:30] his wife or a girl used to work with him anyway. I don’t know if it was his wife or not, but whatever. But if I was, if I had done the design, I, I’ve created the first three things.
[00:33:43] So when I run camp, I have over 150 social media things. I do not do all of them. I create three kind of templates that I want for each of the different, or maybe it was five templates or seven templates, and then every single [00:34:00] speaker, it’s kind of like, oh, you put the speaker’s head here, you get the text from here and you make some typography.
[00:34:06] In the same way that I’ve already done it, I’ve created a template of sorts, a style guide, and then the other, I do it for one person and then the, the people who work for me do all the rest. If it doesn’t look like me, then I’m tweak. I’m saying, Hey, go change this. This needs to adjust cuz I’m art directing.
[00:34:27] I’m not necessarily doing that. I still [00:34:30] think is me, even though I didn’t physically make the. The Mario one, right. But they look enough like the one I did make. So I would say that one was me. And if Clark or has somebody who he has trained to build it, then he has done a good job of replicating himself so he can scale his company.
[00:34:54] But if, if it was a custom illustration, which it may be with Clark, [00:35:00] um, then yeah, you hope that it’s Clark or again, especially with fine art, there are lots of, what do you call those people that work for the artist that are in training? Oh, I forget. Anyway, you know, it’s like old assistance. Apprentice. Oh, yes, yes.
[00:35:22] Apprentice. Yeah. Apprentices. So, but, but I think like DaVinci was an apprentice for someone else, right. Michael [00:35:30] Angelo. And I know, like, we think that just happens in old olden days. Um, like when my mom was a kid. Just kidding. Mom. I’m just kidding. That was supposed to be funny. Um, she’s not that old. Um, but it was like, there’s a Dave Hoo, he’s a glass artist.
[00:35:48] He doesn’t really blow a lot of his own, uh, stuff anymore. He’ll, he might make one and then he has other people that are making it. But it’s still a Dave hoo because they work for [00:36:00] him and he has taught them how to do it. There is controversy in this, in the art world. There’s controversy in this, possibly, I guess as designers as well.
[00:36:09] Um, but that’s how people learn to, to make things. That was the apprenticeship was something like that.
[00:36:18] Mario Quezada: Yeah, and it’s like going back to the illustration, um, example, you have to, you have to ask yourself like, am I paying for his style or am I [00:36:30] paying for him to actually put the pen to the paper? And for me, that’s a different, that’s a vastly different thing, right?
[00:36:38] So if Clark, or is the, the master he is, if you’re paying, paying for a Clark or style, that’s one price. If you’re paying for Clark or to put your pit, to put his pen to create an original piece that’s gonna be skyrocket. A totally different atmosphere, price. You know, we talk about, you know, you know, you know Vonne, Lika [00:37:00] VA was just on this, right?
[00:37:01] Is he has his Lika design studio, right? People go to that because of the style. He doesn’t do everything. His daughter does a lot of work, and they have other people that do stuff in the style that Vaughn has created. Right. They’re not gonna do something in their own style because that’s not what they’re buying.
[00:37:21] So it’s a stylistic thing. There’s a photographer years ago that she was made famous for taking perfect [00:37:30] photos of other famous photos. So her photo, it was, it was her photo. Right? Let, let’s talk about, let’s talk about like gray area, an original photo, right? This is not digital area, right? Era. An original photo.
[00:37:47] She would go and she would light and she would make everything perfect so that her photo looked basically exactly like the original, but it was her, so she was able to [00:38:00] sign it, right? Because she, she, she made that photo. That was, that’s her photo of another photo. Right. So there’s, there, there is a gray area
[00:38:11] diane: that might be copyright infringement.
[00:38:13] I mean, it might, but it,
[00:38:14] Mario Quezada: but it’s not because it was her photo. It’s a photo of someone else’s photo. Right. And the way she, and the way she got around it, I think was, she’s like, she signed it, you know, like, um, her name after the original artist. Oh, right. But it was, but it’s her photo. [00:38:30] Like she has the negative, that’s her photo.
[00:38:33] diane: But I could type up a book that was already written. Why typed it? I got the file. And I mean, you can’t explain that.
[00:38:41] Mario Quezada: That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s different. It’s different because it would be, it would be different. It would be the same thing if you took a photo of the book, of each page and you sold a photo book of the book with your photos in it.
[00:38:56] Because though every page is your photo of the other book, that’s what, that’s what it is. [00:39:00] Cause it’s an image. Right. It’s not the words, it’s the image of the words. Right, right. I didn’t come up, I didn’t come up with the words, I didn’t write this book. I photographed, this is my photo book of, you know, a tale of two cities or whatever.
[00:39:13] Right, right. So that, that would be a, that would be the same thing, right? Um, because you’re not, yeah,
[00:39:19] diane: go ahead. No, I was just gonna, I think people should contact, we are not copyright attorneys. You should contact a copyright attorney for the copyright part. We’re just having a discussion. Can we get [00:39:30] back a little bit to process?
[00:39:32] So in this, in this Dale Choo, I said Dave, but it’s not Dave. So what do you think if I agreed, like you were saying with Clark Gore, if you wanted Dale Choo to actually make it, it’s still considered a Dale jhu because it was his, um, it’s his shape of a bowl or whatever, but he didn’t blow it. He didn’t. In Glassblowing, I don’t know if y’all [00:40:00] know, we have a glassblowing facility, so we have kids that are learning glassblowing.
[00:40:03] So it’s a two, it’s a team. You have to have two people. Somebody is spinning and blowing while you’re pinching and doing whatever it you. So it’s like, well, it was Mario’s air and my hands, you know? But Mario would be like, well, you couldn’t have done it without me, but Mario doesn’t get to put his name on my bowl that I made because I’m art directing now.
[00:40:26] Blow here, put it back in the heat, turn it, keep turning, turn [00:40:30] faster, or, um, put that down in the whatever fret that’s glass, powdery stuff. Um, and I think in a way there is something, it doesn’t feel like if I was making, if I wanted Dale Jahooli to make my bowl or my lamp or whatever, I. I know it would cost a whole lot more.
[00:40:57] So this is like a cheaper, a minimum [00:41:00] viable product or something. Right? This is your cheaper price Maybe. But I also think if he’s done a really good job, he’s still saying it’s his, it’s still his design, it’s still his art. He is still making it. And those people who work for him, they get paid, but they’re not doing their original art.
[00:41:21] They’re doing Dale’s art.
[00:41:24] Mario Quezada: Right. Right. So they, they’re, they’re being app apprenticed to learn how to do [00:41:30] the master’s work. Right. And so they’re being paid to do the Master’s work. Right. And so if in that instance you know that it could have been 50 different people that made whatever the thing is, but what you wanted was the thing you got.
[00:41:48] So does that make it less. Does that make it less valuable to you? If it’s exactly what you wanted and it came from the place that you wanted it to be from, [00:42:00] and originally it came from the mind that you paid, that has the name on the piece that, that you bought, the, the thing from. Is it, does that make it less valuable to you?
[00:42:11] I’m asking you like,
[00:42:12] diane: no, I don’t, I don’t think so either. And I, I’m just kind of thinking about the, if, if we’re talking about people using templates for a menu or something, it is a. You’re not getting an original design. There will be multiple people who have [00:42:30] this same menu and they’ve just put their, their stuff in there.
[00:42:33] It’s not the custom stuff. We were talking, Amy Lynn came and did a little lecture for my students about, she’s in the wine industry, she does wine packaging, wine logos, and um, she was saying, so I made my students do a word mark that was So, just words? No, um, no element, no icon. Cuz oftentimes a wine, a winery [00:43:00] wouldn’t have a, sometimes they don’t have like a fancy logo that has a mark and a word.
[00:43:05] So I was like, oh, to make it easier, let’s just do a word mark. But it can’t just be like, do, do, do. I typed it out in impact Sweet design, Mario. You know, I love that impact or hobo or something else that I hate, you know, but it has to be about, um, It has. I think you have to adjust something, you have to change something.
[00:43:25] You have to make something custom. So in a way, all of us who aren’t building our [00:43:30] own type or aren’t printing our own things, are we all just using these are templates or tools. Um, I also think it’s, I’m happy to make some of my templates and to, uh, put some of those things out there, but really, they’re just really for me to help my process get faster.
[00:43:48] I, I do wanna, um, I, I know there’s a whole other thing going on in the chat that I haven’t read, and it’s, uh, Dustin and Paul and everybody’s talking about the more of the art side. But I wanted to talk [00:44:00] about our processes as, because I don’t think anybody cares if I use a notion template or if I made my own for my taxes.
[00:44:09] Right? Nobody, nobody really, nobody. I’m not selling that Lord knows. And it’s, it’s a grid, you know, I just wanted to make sure it would work. Um, But if there are things that will help us, I don’t have to make all the brushes I use, I just buy mine from Retro Supply. Right. And I can absolutely know that. I [00:44:30] know I could make it, but I don’t wanna make it.
[00:44:32] Dustin’s already made it. It’s so much faster. I’m just gonna go there. But in this, Mario, you’ve taken lots of classes. You’ve, I’ve taken lots of classes. Uh, you’ve read lots of books. I’ve read lots of books. We’ve, you’ve tried out lots of things. Things When you’re doing strategy with people, um, you decide you’re not just following Marty Newmeyer A to Z.
[00:44:56] You are, you have learned. And then you’re taking, and [00:45:00] you’re seeing what each client, there’s that customization. That’s us. You really building each letter, right. , that’s what it requires when you go in for strategy or do the design. If somebody can afford that, it is awesome if we can do that, that’s the kind of designer I want to be.
[00:45:17] But there are definitely some of my clients, especially in the beginning of my business, um, I didn’t use templates. There weren’t as templates out there, I don’t think. Um, but I always did feel like I had to make [00:45:30] everything from scratch and I couldn’t even use the same thing that I had used for them before.
[00:45:34] I felt like I always had to keep making it and it wasn’t efficient for me and it wasn’t efficient for them, and it maybe wasn’t as much, um, co cohesive branding in the beginning of my career. But for you, can you just talk a little bit about your learning and then how you decide what you use and how the process might be different for every client?
[00:45:56] Mario Quezada: Um, are you talking about in a strategy sense or are you
[00:45:58] diane: Yeah. On the strategy side? [00:46:00] Yeah. Because you could follow someone A to Z, correct.
[00:46:04] Mario Quezada: Yeah. And, and I think one of the things that, that you learn as a, as a designer and a designer is just a problem solver, is, is to that every problem isn’t the same, right?
[00:46:17] Every, every client doesn’t have the same problem. They may have a similar problem, like of exposure or, or they need more sales or, or whatever their, that is, or they need a new brand, maybe a [00:46:30] similar problem. But, but the way we go about it is, is, is going to be probably different, right? For everybody. And so I think what Dan’s talking about is, you know, as we, as we acquire tools, and this goes back to my like art direction example, right?
[00:46:45] I’m gonna look at what’s out there and I’m going to use what’s best for my client. So as I read, as I, as I grow in my knowledge, as I grow in my, my, my understanding of strategy, how to do it, what’s best, as I do strategy [00:47:00] for each client, I’m realizing that wow. I could use Marty’s, you know, IM framework, POV framework, right?
[00:47:09] I could use that or I could use, um, you know, the, the thing that the future sells or I could, I could use, um, you know, someone else’s thing or I could use, you know, I could focus on the way, um, Melinda does it, or like, or Steven Han does it or whatever. And, but at the end of the day, I’m [00:47:30] like, well, what’s gonna serve my client best?
[00:47:33] And the only one that’s gonna know what, what’s gonna serve my client best is me, right? Because they’re my client. And so I’m gonna realize like, oh, actually you don’t need all this other stuff. You really just need this, this, and this. So let’s get you really great, this, this thing, this thing and this thing.
[00:47:53] Let’s find that really well so that you can go out, feel confident and, and, and have a brand that you’re proud of. So [00:48:00] really, we acquired tools. But we’re not gonna use every tool we have for everything we do. Right, right. My, one of my, I, I believe one of my strengths is seeing what tools I need, but also even more importantly, seeing what tools I don’t need.
[00:48:19] Like I don’t need to do all this stuff and, and, and spend two hours like digging into this and this and that because you actually are just a startup mom and pop, [00:48:30] you know, taco shop or whatever it is. And like, you don’t need me to go in that deep for your, for your company because your company A is not that deep.
[00:48:39] And B, you don’t need that right now. Maybe after you become a multimillion dollar company, restaurant chain in the future. Yeah, we can go a deep dive cuz there’s a lot more nuanced things that we have to consider. But for you right now, What, what are the things that I know can get you what you absolutely need right [00:49:00] now to move you forward in the fastest, most efficient way possible?
[00:49:03] And I think we need to do that more with our clients, right? And so, going back to the process and template idea, what I look at is what are the things that I know, what are the things that they need, and how can I bridge that gap as fast as possible? Mm-hmm. for them, right? Yeah. There’s this, there’s this, there’s this thing I read recently.
[00:49:27] It’s like the, the distance between [00:49:30] our clients paying us and them actually seeing results from all the work that we’re doing, that distance is the value. So the shorter, the shorter the. But more massive value. So in a, in a, in a utopian world, as if, if I’m providing a service and someone buys something from me and swipes their credit card, as soon as that credit card is swiped, their life should be different, right?
[00:49:56] That’s, that’s how fast, like, like it’s instant value, [00:50:00] man, I’m gonna give you $500,000 and I’m gonna have $2 million of value. Right? So think about that. The distance between your, your client paying you and the value they see from what you do for them. Not the design, not the product, not what you give them, but the value that they obtain on their business from what they get, what you give them, that’s the value and that distance of time that, that, that measures the value, right?
[00:50:29] If it takes [00:50:30] two years for my client to see any movement on their brand, because of, cuz it a, it took me a long time cause I had to start from scratch or b. Um, they, I just didn’t give them a, a good enough plan to make that thing worthwhile for them until two years. Then the value’s actually very minimal.
[00:50:51] Right? But if I shorten that to two months and I give them crazy value in two months, and they’re already skyrocketing at [00:51:00] two months after we complete our project and I give ’em a good plan, then that’s a lot of value in a short amount of time. Does that make sense?
[00:51:08] diane: Yeah. I do think there’s something, there’s something about walking with people because I think some of my students would be like, this is not valuable, and they need the time after, right?
[00:51:20] They need, they come back later. I had somebody yesterday text me and it’s like, I need another one of these. And he was talking about one of my students who’s [00:51:30] alumni, he’s like, I need a duplicate of Marcus. He’s awesome. I need another one. I was like, okay. And he was a student of mine as well. And he’s like, you teach them.
[00:51:39] Um, these are things that I know that these are things that you teach them in school. And so that’s a kid who I had in 2004, Marcus I had in 2020. And it’s like, but Marcus hadn’t come back and said anything. So it’s a lot of this, there’s a lot of learning that maybe is painful. I think you raising your kids, it’s all this [00:52:00] stuff.
[00:52:00] There’s value in all the time you’re putting in with your kids and you don’t necessarily, you maybe it, maybe it’s different cause it’s a child that’s not a return on investment, hopefully. Um, but, but you’re investing this time in their, but this with a client as well. So there’s somebody who’s going, you’re gonna be there with them in these, you know, valleys and these peaks through their.
[00:52:27] I don’t know. Uh, the thing is, is that you can [00:52:30] see what to use with each different client, and you’re not going to just go through the same frame or all four hours of something just because that’s what you do with everybody. You’re gonna actually, that’s, that’s experience tells you what’s gonna work and what’s not.
[00:52:46] Because you have done this over and over. I had a kid, I used to give all the questions that I might ask in a interview or not an interview, interview like this, but when I do an intake, like with a client for the first time, and um, I had, I [00:53:00] would give it to my students. I said, here’s some questions. You know, and I may, I know when to move quickly or I kind of know what the answer is so I can answer some of it on my own.
[00:53:09] I don’t need all these answers, but it’s my sheet. I’ve worked through it. So I remember I had a kid who went over to, um, Department and me and my friend Lars was like, man, he took like an hour and a half of my time. He went through all these questions. I was like, oh man, those are my [00:53:30] questions. It was like, I didn’t need to answer all these questions.
[00:53:33] It’s just a poster for some Shakespeare play, you know, like, I just need a poster buddy. You know, you don’t need, and it’s, it’s that the kid didn’t know, he didn’t have the experience to know, so he went through one through 40 of all the questions, but I would’ve known, Hey, I only need this. I don’t need everything, because I can get some of this just from other things that I’m able to take in and do research on my [00:54:00] own or, but it, that’s the experience part, I think.
[00:54:04] Anyway, I just think it’s, it’s, we discount the failures of when we see somebody and they’re like, oh, I gotta go, or. Right? That, that part of that process that you might be learned once and now, you know, to look out for this, or if they’re not getting it, like you’re like, okay, pivoting, going to a new tool because they don’t, they’re not understanding what I’m asking.[00:54:30]
[00:54:30] Mario Quezada: I think the strength of doing this over and over and over and over again, whatever that is your craft right, is actually the education you get from doing it over and over and over again, right? It’s that experiential knowledge, not just education, it’s not just book knowledge. Um, the experiential knowledge of actually doing strategy or design or art direction or illustration, whatever.
[00:54:51] You know, what is gonna happen if you mix these two colors together, whereas someone else who’s new [00:55:00] doesn’t know what’s gonna happen. So their, their, their stuff looks terrible. Where using the same colors as. When in stark contrast to your stuff, that might look amazing because you know how to use those two things together in that, and you have the same tools, you just have a different set of knowledge.
[00:55:23] Right? So it’s really about understanding what you know and [00:55:30] continuing to grow in that knowledge so that you can provide this, the, the, the best possible service to your clients. Um, but also so that you can, you can be more efficient in your own work and your life. I do things my way. Diane does things her way, you know, and it’s just because the we’re built different and my journey, my experiential knowledge is different than Diane’s experiential knowledge and it causes us to have different processes.
[00:55:58] But, you know, it’s [00:56:00] really, at the end of the day, it’s really about servicing our clients and, and doing, doing the best possible
[00:56:04] diane: work possible. Yeah. And I love the thing about value. So the shortest time to that value. I think that that’s, um, I’m gonna have to think on that. That’ll be other conversations I have with you when you’re not there in my, in my hand.
[00:56:17] I’ll tell you about those on Friday. Uh, but all right, uh, guys, I’m excited to have, uh, Sandi Hester. I’ve talked to y’all about her for, I don’t know, ever since I’ve been back. She, um, is an [00:56:30] artist. So artist, artist, not a designer, never a designer. Um, she’s a painter and I didn’t know her, but she did go to Auburn or Eagle and, um, that’s our battle cry.
[00:56:43] Um, anyway, anyway, I’m super excited to have Sandi. She is gonna talk us about process again, and she goes out and draws and paints and in her sketchbooks, and then she comes back and makes these. Big, amazing paintings and some, and it’s the [00:57:00] process of making the same thing over and over, which is kind of what we’re talking about here, about being able to know and experience.
[00:57:07] She’ll make trees that are purple and she used to hate using purple, so it’s like, oh, I don’t have anything good. I’ll just use the purple. And then she’s found something else, or a new tool, or a new way to use a tool, and it’s also about being loose. And she was really tight as an artist, like again, making it photographic, you know?
[00:57:26] And. Being able to embrace what she [00:57:30] wants and how she feels is right for her. Um, and she knows it’s not for everybody. And I’m sure that she gets hated on, like somebody tells her maybe that she doesn’t know how to draw sometimes. I’m sure somebody would tell me that as well. Um, but it’s, she is, I love her art, I love her.
[00:57:46] She is quirky and crazy and we both have the same, these glasses we both have and my blue glasses. So hopefully she’ll wear her blue glasses. My husband calls the blue blockers. So, um, I hope to see you guys next week. I can’t [00:58:00] wait. And thanks for coming and staying. And I, and, um, thanks for all the new people that came.
[00:58:07] You can always come, just go to recharging you.com/signup. If you’re listening to this or um, watching this on YouTube, you can always go there. The links down below. And if you want to know how to get more, if you want to learn more about Mario, you can. Get him, you tell him cuz you have to say your last name again.
[00:58:27] I’ll just type it in the chat. [00:58:30]
[00:58:30] Mario Quezada: Uh, easiest way is to connect with me on Instagram is just at the Mario Cassada, Q U E z, ADA a uh, you can also go to madex maker.com. That’s more of just my, my agency work. Uh, if you guys are interested in the photographer that I was referencing, her name is Cindy Sherman.
[00:58:51] Um, and she was, she was kinda, she was definitely, uh, uh, a polarizing person, [00:59:00] um, when she came, came on the scene. So it was really interesting. It’s interesting read about her.
[00:59:05] diane: What’s her, how do you spell that?
[00:59:07] Mario Quezada: Cindy? C i n y.
[00:59:10] diane: Sherman, s c I thought you said something else. M a. Okay. I do remember, remember her?
[00:59:16] I thought you said I had a Sealy or something. Anyway, I just didn’t hear well. Cause I only have one of my earbuds works. Uh, the other one doesn’t. Right. Anyway, I’ve got a type made by Maker real quick. May com. Okay, now you can [00:59:30] get to Mario there. And, oh, I want one other thing. We’re doing blobs. Hang on.
[00:59:36] Okay, so this is week one. You guys could do it with me. Mine is at home. I’ve already done, I had two just in case I was worried I was gonna mess something up. So I just printed out two for each. But you guys can go to recharging you.com/imagine ember. And if you don’t know what that is, it’s like imagine and then eat or imagine M B E R, like November or [01:00:00] December.
[01:00:00] Imagine Ember and then you can do it with us. And Paul’s done some, um, we’ve gotten kayaks already and people, and I did a jalapeno and somebody did a fun banana. So, um, join us and just put Imagine Ember in the, in your hashtag and tag me in it. And it’s, it’s been fun. So hopefully we’re only on week one.
[01:00:23] You can jump in anytime. So if you’re watching this and it’s 2085, jump on in. I’m sure I’m dead, [01:00:30] but feel free, jump on in. Okay. The end.